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Author: Subject: Can you extract MEKP from commercial liquid resin hardners?
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Can you extract MEKP from commercial liquid resin hardners?

This is a pretty interesting question in which i have been unable to find an answer for.

There are commercial catalysts used to harden resins that contain MEKP, but in dilute form. The average I am hearing is about 40% - 60%. Some of the ingredients used to dilute MEKP according to the MSDS for one manufacturer of MEKP resin hardener are:

Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide - 34%

Dimethyl Phthalate - 43%

2,2,4-Trimethyl-1,3-pentanediol diisobutyrate - 20
%

Hydrogen Peroxide - 01%

Methyl Ethyl Ketone - 02%

Water - 01%

Here is the msds link: http://www.eagerplastics.com/mekp.htm

Is there anyway to safely and easily extract the MEKP from these hardeners, or is it just easier to make it yourself. I ask because a 10oz bottle only cost $8 dollars, and will yield 3.4oz of MEKP, if it could all be extracted. plus no hassle of dealing with temperature control, acids, and I would assume a much better, and higher quality product in the end. Saerynide International Hazard Posts: 954 Registered: 17-11-2003 Location: The Void Member Is Offline Mood: Ionic I dont think its worth it. My resin hardener contains much less than 34% MEKP and it cost$6 for a meager 1 fl oz. Better save it for making acrylic casts

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DougTheMapper
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Even if you could extract it reasonably efficiently, that's 100mL for $8, putting your price at 8 cents per milliliter. I bought a gallon of MEK for$21, a gallon of 31% HCl for $8, and I simmer down$1 quarts of 3% H2O2 for a total of around 3 cents per mL.

Everyone complains about this synth being difficult compared to TATP, but I really don't see why. I think it's worth it since this stuff is less sensitive. It takes maybe 5 minutes to measure everything, then stick it in the fridge for an hour, 5 more to mix everything, forget it for 24 hours, 20 mins to neutralize and isolate... So 30 minutes? And if you have a Florence flask and a syringe, the isolated product is clean, clear, and free of pesky water bubbles as long as you're careful.
crazywantabies
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I have the hardener, yet, A SAFE FORMALDEHYDE plastic rosin???? I will personally donate 20.00 to any brother or sister's favorite charity- IN THE name of

part time stickered "slow" bumper stickers on vehicles, THE BOX and future consciousness "sin" detection unit P.E.A.R. project "baby- FOR A SAFER FORMALDEHYDE PLASTIC RESIN idea. )
Bot0nist
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I second DougTheMapper. Why the hell would you want to go through a cumbersome extraction for a compound that is:

A.) Not very useful.

B.) So trivial to synthesis that even the dullest of kewls could procure fine yields with minimal effort.

If it's a problem with being able to find the required chemicals to synthesize, then I assure you that the reagents needed for a clean extraction would be much more of a daunting task to acquire.

[Edited on 20-3-2011 by Bot0nist]
Fossil
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 Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper Even if you could extract it reasonably efficiently, that's 100mL for $8, putting your price at 8 cents per milliliter. I bought a gallon of MEK for$21, a gallon of 31% HCl for $8, and I simmer down$1 quarts of 3% H2O2 for a total of around 3 cents per mL. Everyone complains about this synth being difficult compared to TATP, but I really don't see why. I think it's worth it since this stuff is less sensitive. It takes maybe 5 minutes to measure everything, then stick it in the fridge for an hour, 5 more to mix everything, forget it for 24 hours, 20 mins to neutralize and isolate... So 30 minutes? And if you have a Florence flask and a syringe, the isolated product is clean, clear, and free of pesky water bubbles as long as you're careful.

Could you send me the procedure you use for this please. All of the methods of manufacture that I have found involve sulfuric acid, which I have considerably less of than I do Hydrochloric acid.

What concentration Hydrochloric acid do you use and how far down do you concentrate the hydrogen peroxide, as in how much do you reduce it from its original volume.
Bot0nist
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Quote: Originally posted by Fossil
 Quote: Originally posted by DougTheMapper Even if you could extract it reasonably efficiently, that's 100mL for $8, putting your price at 8 cents per milliliter. I bought a gallon of MEK for$21, a gallon of 31% HCl for $8, and I simmer down$1 quarts of 3% H2O2 for a total of around 3 cents per mL. Everyone complains about this synth being difficult compared to TATP, but I really don't see why. I think it's worth it since this stuff is less sensitive. It takes maybe 5 minutes to measure everything, then stick it in the fridge for an hour, 5 more to mix everything, forget it for 24 hours, 20 mins to neutralize and isolate... So 30 minutes? And if you have a Florence flask and a syringe, the isolated product is clean, clear, and free of pesky water bubbles as long as you're careful.

Could you send me the procedure you use for this please. All of the methods of manufacture that I have found involve sulfuric acid, which I have considerably less of than I do Hydrochloric acid.

What concentration Hydrochloric acid do you use and how far down do you concentrate the hydrogen peroxide, as in how much do you reduce it from its original volume.

A search with the forum engine of Methyl Ethyl Ketone Peroxide would have yielded this thread, http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20 , in which madscientist replied to binary mz's question about varying the acid catalyst;

 Quote: Originally posted by madscientist If the temperature of the reaction is kept low, I suppose HCl could be used. As for adding the H2SO4, I suggest diluting it prior to adding it to the solution prepared by mixing MEK with hydrogen peroxide.

Binary mz later posts that he has tried it, to success.

 Quote: Originally posted by binary mz 50ml mek/80ml h202/30ml hcl. 24 hours later theres a nice big glob in the mason jar.

_________________________________________________
 Quote: Originally posted by Fossil What concentration Hydrochloric acid do you use and how far down do you concentrate the hydrogen peroxide, as in how much do you reduce it from its original volume.

Concentrating H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> and determining it's concentration.

Can 3% H<sub>2</sub>O<sub>2</sub> be used in the synthesis of energetic peroxides?

There are a lot more. Don't be lazy. READ.
UTFSE !!!!

[Edited on 9-4-2012 by Bot0nist]

U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!

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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Special topics » Energetic Materials » Can you extract MEKP from commercial liquid resin hardners? Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues