itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
An economical chain of experiments?
I am hoping to learn organic chemistry to enhance my world view.
Is there some sequence of experiments that imparts knowledge of technique while building up a basic amateur stock of chemicals?
Thanks
|
|
|
fusso
International Hazard
Posts: 1922
Registered: 23-6-2017
Location: 4 ∥ universes ahead of you
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday  | I am hoping to learn organic chemistry to enhance my world view.
Is there some sequence of experiments that imparts knowledge of technique while building up a basic amateur stock of chemicals?
Thanks |
How could learning OC enhance world view? Again this defly looks like spoonfeed.
|
|
|
mayko
International Hazard
Posts: 1218
Registered: 17-1-2013
Location: Carrboro, NC
Member Is Offline
Mood: anomalous (Euclid class)
|
|
Methyl salicylate by fischer esterification is a good first OC experiment. You get experience sourcing reagents OTC and with reflux & workup. It
also has a simple & straightforward mechanism to introduce you to electron-pushing 
http://www.sciencemadness.org/smwiki/index.php/Methyl_salicy...
al-khemie is not a terrorist organization
"Chemicals, chemicals... I need chemicals!" - George Hayduke
"Wubbalubba dub-dub!" - Rick Sanchez
|
|
|
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
Posts: 1636
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday | I am hoping to learn organic chemistry to enhance my world view.
Is there some sequence of experiments that imparts knowledge of technique while building up a basic amateur stock of chemicals?
Thanks |
Distill Ethyl Acetate from nail polish remover, then convert to ethyl Alcohol and Sodium Acetate.
Usefull reagents:
Ethanol
Ethyl Acetate
Sodium Acetate
Next is make Concentrated Acetic Acid, by using drain cleaner acid and the above sodium acetate.
[Edited on 7-1-2019 by XeonTheMGPony]
|
|
|
itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
Thanks for the suggestion for distilling ethyl acetate. I don't have any ethyl acetate.
Making sodium acetate with vinegar and baking soda was the first experiment I did. It turned out great. I also make ethanol with a still so I have
lots of that and plan on drying some .
| Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony | | Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday | I am hoping to learn organic chemistry to enhance my world view.
Is there some sequence of experiments that imparts knowledge of technique while building up a basic amateur stock of chemicals?
Thanks |
Distill Ethyl Acetate from nail polish remover, then convert to ethyl Alcohol and Sodium Acetate.
Usefull reagents:
Ethanol
Ethyl Acetate
Sodium Acetate
Next is make Concentrated Acetic Acid, by using drain cleaner acid and the above sodium acetate.
[Edited on 7-1-2019 by XeonTheMGPony] |
|
|
|
itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
Great suggestion. Thanks .
|
|
|
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
Posts: 1636
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday | Thanks for the suggestion for distilling ethyl acetate. I don't have any ethyl acetate.
Making sodium acetate with vinegar and baking soda was the first experiment I did. It turned out great. I also make ethanol with a still so I have
lots of that and plan on drying some .
| Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony | | Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday | I am hoping to learn organic chemistry to enhance my world view.
Is there some sequence of experiments that imparts knowledge of technique while building up a basic amateur stock of chemicals?
Thanks |
Distill Ethyl Acetate from nail polish remover, then convert to ethyl Alcohol and Sodium Acetate.
Usefull reagents:
Ethanol
Ethyl Acetate
Sodium Acetate
Next is make Concentrated Acetic Acid, by using drain cleaner acid and the above sodium acetate.
[Edited on 7-1-2019 by XeonTheMGPony] |
|
You missed the part on where to get ethyl acetate, it is a good organic solvent to have for extractions. The process of converting it to ethanol and
sodium acetate is procedural and gives very dry clean Ethanol which is good for water free extractions.
Look up the process as each step feeds the next. The Sodium acetate is fairly pure too but can be further purified by recrystallized from hot
methanol.
|
|
|
itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
Yeah, I did . Thanks for the info on nail polish remover. I also missed making concentrated acetic acid , thanks. I've been watching Nile Red,
Nurd Rage , Dougs Lab on youtube and it's overwhelming how much stuff there is to know and learn and buy, scrounge or make.
|
|
|
CharlieA
National Hazard
Posts: 645
Registered: 11-8-2015
Location: Missouri, USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Buy a used organic chemistry laboratory manual. Do as many of the experiments as you can. This will guide you in techniques and suggest items to get
for your laboratory. Get an older laboratory manual that doesn't involve a lot of instrumental methods but instead relies on "wet chemistry." Another
good book to aid in putting together a lab and doing fundamental experiments is Robert Bruce Thompson's "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry
Experiments. Also, the smaller the scale that you perform experiments in, the smaller the equipment and the smaller amounts of chemicals that you will
need.
|
|
|
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
Posts: 2692
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: Big
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony | | Quote: Originally posted by itsafineday | I am hoping to learn organic chemistry to enhance my world view.
Is there some sequence of experiments that imparts knowledge of technique while building up a basic amateur stock of chemicals?
Thanks |
Distill Ethyl Acetate from nail polish remover, then convert to ethyl Alcohol and Sodium Acetate.
Usefull reagents:
Ethanol
Ethyl Acetate
Sodium Acetate
Next is make Concentrated Acetic Acid, by using drain cleaner acid and the above sodium acetate. |
I like this idea. You can go further and make acetamide by rxn of ethyl acetate and aqueous ammonia:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=23491&...
and you can even turn that acetamide into acetonitrile by refluxing over alumina, but the reaction requires high temperatures and a good condenser, so
it's not for beginners:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=11137&...
[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
|
|
|
itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by CharlieA | | Buy a used organic chemistry laboratory manual. Do as many of the experiments as you can. This will guide you in techniques and suggest items to get
for your laboratory. Get an older laboratory manual that doesn't involve a lot of instrumental methods but instead relies on "wet chemistry." Another
good book to aid in putting together a lab and doing fundamental experiments is Robert Bruce Thompson's "Illustrated Guide to Home Chemistry
Experiments. Also, the smaller the scale that you perform experiments in, the smaller the equipment and the smaller amounts of chemicals that you will
need. |
Smaller messes, too  . I will check out the Thompson book for sure.
|
|
|
itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
I stumbled upon M.E.K. Substitute which the klean strip site says is 100% ethyl acetate. When I checked the site it also said the product was
discontinued. Is this worth stocking up on at 10 US dollars a quart?
Clearly_not_atara , Despite the low yields , I'm chomping at the bit to make acetonitrile from horse teeth. Thanks for adding to the chain.
|
|
|
chemplayer...
Hazard to Others
Posts: 191
Registered: 25-4-2016
Location: Away from the secret island
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Start out with experiments which require basic set-up, e.g. flasks / beakers and stirring, plus filtration / liquid separation techniques. Whilst
you're getting the hang of these you can look into reflux / distillation equipment and options.
For example:
1. Challenge yourself to make solid iodine starting from potassium iodide and household ingredients (e.g. hydrogen peroxide / bleach).
2. Use this together with vanillin powder in a buffered solution to prepare 5-iodovanillin.
3. Using basic equipment, a challenge of converting this product into 5-hydoxyvanillin.
Another good and classic sequence (slightly more advanced) would be to start with benzyl alcohol and go all the way to benzilic acid. Or start with
peppercorns and see if you can do the extraction of piperine and then work through to piperonal.
Watch our videos if you want the cheat sheets on these!
|
|
|
itsafineday
Hazard to Self
Posts: 89
Registered: 5-1-2019
Location: "...in them thar hills."
Member Is Offline
Mood: Feelin groovy
|
|
Thanks Chemplayer. These will keep me busy for a while.
Also, to clarify, I have been collecting stuff for the past year. I have received several stinky blue boxes from china and have a complete vacuum
distillation setup (except dewar for cold trap). I built a fume hood (but it needs a redesign  ) and got hotplate stirrer, vacuum pump and mel-temp from auction . At this point I'm trying to map the best and safest use of this stuff
. I'm dangerous, though and still figuring out the basics like how to get the gook out of my rbf!
I'm going to pick up some molecular sieves at the post office 
|
|
|
XeonTheMGPony
International Hazard
Posts: 1636
Registered: 5-1-2016
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
That MEK Substitute is WELL WORTH IT!!!!!! get it, get it now!
Then distill it!, find out what is a compatible drying agent, then find out method to purify it.
Then, hydrolyze with NaOH to make Sodium acetate and ethyl alcohol. Separate the two, take the now free ethyl alcohol and reflux with some more sodium
hydroxide (Warning: This will etch your flask, so use an older one for such reactions)
Distill, you will now have dry and fairly pure ethyl alcohol.
Combine the sodium salt fractions and acidify with Acetic acid until neutral
Dry this, then dry further, then even more (Till it melts and fusses), crush and powder and seal in a jar.
You will have now:
Near anhydrous ethyl alcohol (Reagent and solvent)
Dry sodium acetate (Reagent)
Ethyl Acetate (Organic extraction solvent)
Stage two:
Take dry Sodium acetate and place in a flask
Calculate the amount of H2SO4 needed
Set up for addition and distillation this will give you concentrated acetic acid, and sodium sulfate, work both up.
Sodium sulfate (Drying agent and reagent)
Concentrated Acetic acid (Solvent and reagent)
This is an excellent practice that gives you a slew of basic lab chems, why I recommended it, and it takes you through allot of needed procedures.
Distillations, dryings, recapitalization, Acid, Base manipulation of Ph
|
|
|
PirateDocBrown
National Hazard
Posts: 570
Registered: 27-11-2016
Location: Minnesota
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I totally concur about the MEK substitute.
I did a bit of research, and it turns out they only made it for a year or so, to comply with some environmental law that got reversed.
But the hardware store near me had gallons of it, for $20 or so. Damn right I got one.
Phlogiston manufacturer/supplier.
For all your phlogiston needs.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
