ronnymac
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caffeine hcl salt
how would one convert caffeine anhydrous to a caffeine,hcl
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psychokinetic
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Add caffeine.xH2O to HCl.xH2O and hope for the best?
Or add ah caffeine to an HCl solution. Either way, you just need to evaporate the water off.
“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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JohnWW
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Simply by reaction with aqueous HCl, and crystallizing out the product. If you use No-Doz tablets for the caffeine, you will have to filter off the
solids in the form of the tableting aids.
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ronnymac
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I bought several grams of caffeine but it is not very soluble.I wanted to convert to a salt so it would mix in a drink easier. How would i
recrystalize the caffeine?
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not_important
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Solubility in water
2.17 g/100 ml (25 °C)
18.0 g/100 ml (80 °C)
67.0 g/100 ml (100 °C)
from Merck
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One gram dissolves in 46 ml water, 5.5 ml water at 80°, 1.5 ml boiling water, 66 ml alcohol, 22 ml alcohol at 60', 50 ml acetone, 5.5 ml chloroform,
530 ml ether, 100 ml benzene, 22 ml boiling benzene. Freely sol in pyrrole; in tetrahydrofuran contg about 4% water; also sol in ethyl acetate;
slightly in petr ether.
Soly in water is increased by alkali benzoates, cinnamates, citrates or salicylates.
LD50 orally in mice, hamsters, rats, rabbits(mg/kg): 127, 230, 355, 246 (males); 137, 249, 247, 224 (females)
Mixture with citric acid, citrated caffeine, "caffeine citrate" White, crystalline powder; acid reaction. Sol in about 4 parts warm water. Aq solns of
caffeine salts dissociate quickly.
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So make a saturated solution of caffeine in boiling water, add an equivalent amount of citric acid as a saturated hot solution, allow to cool. If
crystals form, add a little warm water.
Note that by the LD50 numbers, a half liter of room temperature caffeine saturated (without added citric acid) water is likely to make a 50 kg mammal
ill and has some chance of killing it.
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sonogashira
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Quote: Originally posted by ronnymac  | | I bought several grams of caffeine but it is not very soluble.I wanted to convert to a salt so it would mix in a drink easier. How would i
recrystalize the caffeine? |
Just add to an acidic drink like fruit juice/squash, even coca cola is probably acidic enough (like most carbonated drinks). Or just put it in your
mouth and wash down with liquid. Personally I wouldn't mess with hydrochloric acid just to make it more soluble.
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Satan
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In health preparations in my country, to increase its solubility caffeine is mixed with sodium benzoate, for example in Cardiamid Coffein.
Speaking from experience, caffeine in this form in doses equivalent to that consumed in coffe or tea, is far too strong, if you are looking for
replacement for your daily dose
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Sedit
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I know I sound like a prude here but I want you to rethink what your doing just a little bit ronnymac. Your telling us you have very little chemistry
experiance yet you want to ingest something you concocted. If your HCl is muratic acid which it more then likely will be then you can not be 100% sure
of the purity from heavy metals you are ingesting.
Its no real big issue but think about it a bit first. And remember you CAN OD on caffeine.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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ronnymac
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I've just seen chemicals that were .hcl were more soluble. if i can mix with orange juice or soda that would be fine, and thank eveyone who responded.
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Psyclone
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why do you need/want to ingest so much caffeine??? Seriously isnt having no-doz tablets, or drinking an energy drink enough???? What is the point of
ingesting an even larger amount of caffeine?
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psychokinetic
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From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caffeine#Caffeine_intoxication
| Quote: |
In cases of extreme overdose, death can result. The median lethal dose (LD50) given orally, is 192 milligrams per kilogram in rats.[2] The LD50 of
caffeine in humans is dependent on weight and individual sensitivity and estimated to be about 150 to 200 milligrams per kilogram of body mass,
roughly 80 to 100 cups of coffee for an average adult taken within a limited time frame that is dependent on half-life. Though achieving lethal dose
with caffeine would be exceptionally difficult with regular coffee, there have been reported deaths from overdosing on caffeine pills, with serious
symptoms of overdose requiring hospitalization occurring from as little as 2 grams of caffeine. An exception to this would be taking a drug such as
fluvoxamine which blocks the liver enzyme responsible for the metabolism of caffeine, thus increasing the central effects and blood concentrations of
caffeine dramatically at 5-fold. It is not contraindicated, but highly advisable to minimize the intake of caffeinated beverages, as drinking one cup
of coffee will have the same effect as drinking five under normal conditions.
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Sounds like a fun night in.
“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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Nicodem
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| Quote: Originally posted by ronnymac | | I've just seen chemicals that were .hcl were more soluble. if i can mix with orange juice or soda that would be fine, and thank eveyone who responded.
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Have you even bothered checking the pKa of protonated caffeine? Have you any idea of how acidic (and unstable) the hydrate of caffeine hydrochloride
is? And then you say you want to add this into something humans will drink? Are you completely insane or you just want to make us feel uncomfortable?
One can easily overdose with caffeine even with its saturated aqueous solution, so why would someone want to increase its solubility when its
solubility is already high as it is? Are you trying to poison yourself or someone else, or what else are you up to? Death in convulsions is terrible
and dying from caffeine is no better than dying from strychnine. Common sense would tell you to at least read the scientific literature before messing
with dangerous stuff.
…there is a human touch of the cultist “believer” in every theorist that he must struggle against as being
unworthy of the scientist. Some of the greatest men of science have publicly repudiated a theory which earlier they hotly defended. In this lies their
scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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sonogashira
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| Quote: Originally posted by Satan | In health preparations in my country, to increase its solubility caffeine is mixed with sodium benzoate, for example in Cardiamid
Coffein.
Speaking from experience, caffeine in this form in doses equivalent to that consumed in coffe or tea, is far too strong, if you are looking for
replacement for your daily dose |
For what health problem would one be given this? It is said to contain caffeine, nikethamide and strychnine?! 
But have you mixed caffeine with sodium benzoate in your own preparation? And does it change the effect besides the potency? Thanks!
(I don't know why people assume ronnymac will take it all at once?! I didn't get that impression.)
[Edited on 7-1-2010 by sonogashira]
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Satan
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| Quote: Originally posted by sonogashira |
But have you mixed caffeine with sodium benzoate in your own preparation? And does it change the effect besides the potency? Thanks!
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Its OTC medication, old generation also. Its used for hypotension, problems with breathing, in asthma with ephedrine, for minor poisoning with other
medications(translation from website).
I did it with caffeine unhydrous(Merck) with sodium benzoate, and sodium citrate in another run, both increase solubility of caffeine. I didnt used it
because I like my green tea  Also benzoates with vitamin C, may genrate
benzene*, so its not so tasty(its smell bad too because of benzoate).
*http://209.85.135.132/search?q=cache:f3A-Hbm9P9sJ:www.fda.gov/Food/FoodSafety/FoodContaminantsAdulteration/ChemicalContaminants/Benzene/ucm055815.htm
+ChemicalContaminants/Benzene/ucm055815.htm&hl=pl&client=opera&gl=pl&strip=1
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Gui316
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Uhmm...What is pKa? How do we check that? After reacting caffeine with hydrochloric acid, what should I do to cristalize the material from the
solution?
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Neil
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pKa is the sound the yellow electrical Pokemon made.
See here.
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Rich_Insane
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I wonder if bubbling HCL through a solution of caffeine in CCl4 or CHCl3 would work. This would only be really efficient if Caffeine HCl is insoluble
in those two. I know that there is a formula to calculate percent ionization based on pKa.
I shall procure it.
Here it is:
For the % dissociation of an acid: "%=100*(10^-pKa)/(10^-pH + 10^-pKa)"
For the % dissociation of a base: "%=100*(10^pKa)/(10^pH+10^pKa) "
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mooseheadgreen
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I am trying to increase solublity using sodium fumarate instead, I am assuming it would work similar, like citrate..
Does Anyone else have further knowledge about the hydrotropic solubilization of caffeine?
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simba
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You surely made my day after this one.
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mooseheadgreen
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hehe, you got me laughing on that one too.
And also, on topic, using sodium fumarate was successful, as suspected. Using equal masses of sodium fumarate and anhydrous caffeine, it was much more
soluble in 25C water. But I have not recorded any quantitative data.
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achem500
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| Quote: Originally posted by ronnymac | | I bought several grams of caffeine but it is not very soluble.I wanted to convert to a salt so it would mix in a drink easier. How would i
recrystalize the caffeine? |
Be very, very careful with caffeine consumption. You don't want to hurt yourself.
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