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Ephoton
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Mood: trying to figure out why I need a dark room retreat when I live in a forest of wattle.
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wolff kishner
the aldol does work on piperonal and in reasonable
yeild in the documents I have read.
the one thing that piperonal does not do is form an alpha
methyl butenone if formed by the acid condensation with
MEK.
both acid and base condensation give the same product.
having said this if you were to use acetone as stated above
the preform a wolff kishner you would have an alkene that
would oxidize too mdp2b not too bad realy.
e3500 console login: root
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Klute
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The same product from acid or base catalysis? Do you have a ref for that? I'm quite surprised.
What is possible is that the double condensation product is obtained with acid catalysis like veratraldehyde and vanillin, as claimed by this document.
Although it's a waste of piperonal, teh double condensation product will give a ester that hydrolyzes to MDP2P, and MDcinnamic acid.
\"You can battle with a demon, you can embrace a demon; what the hell can you do with a fucking spiritual computer?\"
-Alice Parr
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Sedit
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"both acid and base condensation give the same product."
This is simply not true.
Knowledge is useless to useless people...
"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the
fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story
before."~Maynard James Keenan
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Ephoton
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Mood: trying to figure out why I need a dark room retreat when I live in a forest of wattle.
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sorry you are right 
it was a long time ago I read that and played with aldol.
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Klute
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here is a patent were they do the aldol between piperonal and acetone, then hydrogenate the product to Cassione, aka
4-(3,4-methylenedioxyphenyl)butan-2-one, the aroma of Cassis.
See the description here:http://www.thegoodscentscompany.com/data/rw1012851.html
Synthesis of Medroxalol intermediates - US Patent 4697024
This ketone could actually be used to make HMDMA, a derivative of MDMA, see: Indentification of N-Methyl-4-(3,4-Methylenedioxyphenyl)Butan-2-Amine, Distributed as MBDB
I would pretty much just keep it as is though, smells nice 
[Edited on 18-1-2010 by Klute]
\"You can battle with a demon, you can embrace a demon; what the hell can you do with a fucking spiritual computer?\"
-Alice Parr
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Bolt
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I saw a paper that said HMDMA substitutes for MDMA in 5/7 rats at about six times the dose of MDMA. I was surprised [that it substituted for MDMA at
any dose].
[Edited on 28-1-2010 by Bolt]
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turd
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By extrapolation that gives an active dose of 600-800mg. Then it's really better to leave it in the olfactorily pleasing ketone state than to
transform it into the fishy/bitter amine state. I would have been surprised if it was more active. I always was under the impression that the
phenethylamine substructure does not allow for much variation for amphetamine like effects. My guess would have been that it is not active at all -
and who knows what it really does.
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