| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5 |
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
Just detonated about half a gram of ETN underground. I started with a piece of 0.5 inch OD polyethylene tubing, then used a flame to melt and seal
one end. I put the ETN inside, then heated it in a water bath until it melted. Then I took two pieces of nickel/titanium wire and ran about a half
inch of 35 gauge nichrome wire between them. Applying 5VDC caused the wire to glow yellow. Then I immersed the nichrome wire in some powdered
aluminum and hooked up the voltage again. This had the effect of melting aluminum onto the nichrome wire. Then I melted the ETN again and carefully
immersed the nichrome wire and the other two wires into it. Once the ETN solidified, I melted wax and used that to seal the top of the tube. Then I
got some speaker wire and hooked it up to the two NiTi wires, then ran it about 20 feet away. The first time, there was a bad connection so I wired
everything up again. The second time, I touched the wires to a 9V battery, and I heard a deep "boom" and the dirt above where I buried the ETN lifted
up about half an inch and fell back down. I dug it up and found the half of the polyethylene tube that didn't have ETN in it. All around it were
these tiny white specks too. At first I thought they were undetonated ETN pieces, but on closer examination they appeared to be polyethylene.
The way I detonated it was probably not the most efficient, and I don't think the detonation used all the ETN, but it did certainly appear to
detonate. I think maybe the aluminum fused to the nichrome wire and made it more conductive. This seems like it'd result in a weaker detonation. I
think next time I'll try mixing Al powder with the ETN directly, then using plain, uncoated nichrome wire to provide the heat.
|
|
|
chief
National Hazard
Posts: 630
Registered: 19-7-2007
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Are you sure the Al melted onto the Ni/Cr=wire ? Usually the oxide-layer prevents this ...; on the other hand there exist an reistivity-alloy made
from Ni and Al ...
The oxide layer of Al however is no big deal for HCl, so maybe if chlorine would get into the mixture ...
==> What about mixing ETN wih Al-Powder and a Chlorate ? (dangerous dangerous ...)
|
|
|
Melgar
Anti-Spam Agent
Posts: 2004
Registered: 23-2-2010
Location: Connecticut
Member Is Offline
Mood: Estrified
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by chief  | Are you sure the Al melted onto the Ni/Cr=wire ? Usually the oxide-layer prevents this ...; on the other hand there exist an reistivity-alloy made
from Ni and Al ...
The oxide layer of Al however is no big deal for HCl, so maybe if chlorine would get into the mixture ...
==> What about mixing ETN wih Al-Powder and a Chlorate ? (dangerous dangerous ...) |
Yeah, the surface of the wire was all thick and lumpy, and the same color as the Al powder, although in retrospect there probably wasn't an electrical
connection between them. Mixing ETN with an oxidizer does sound pretty dangerous, although I haven't used chlorates to know how reactive they are.
What I do have is potassium permanganate, and I know I sure wouldn't want to mix that with melted ETN. I was thinking of trying to use a Al/KMnO4
based flash powder to set off the ETN, but I suspect that wouldn't be very stable and I'm not interested in learning it the hard way. Besides,
setting off ETN with flash powder has already been done many times. I guess the next step is seeing if an Al-ETN mixture will detonate from the heat
of a nichrome wire. The reaction between Al and ETN doesn't start until ETN is boiling, so as long as a water bath is used to melt ETN, doing this
doesn't seem to have a significant detonation risk.
|
|
|
Forumdude
Harmless
Posts: 43
Registered: 6-2-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ETN Detonation, Everyone should take a look at this.
So I sucsessfully nitrated and recrystalized ETN and I order these nice little EBW type things, they are a thin piece of metal soldered to two pieces
of copper wire and then sealed with a piece of tubing
The nice tubing is from a 9volt battery, I took it apart and cleaned out one of the tubes from the inside of it.
I first loosley packed the clear tubing with ETN then inside the tube it was packed with a flashpowder then a packed layer of ETN that was packed
using a arbour press to around 1500psi.
I then crimped the EBW or the heating element inside the tube.
The heating element was then powered by many disposable camera capacitors and a circuit board from one.
You can buy the heating elememts at http://martinezspecialtiesinc.com/
They ar dirt cheap
  
|
|
|
dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 144
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If it works like an EBW, whats the flash for?
I do not think this design will be reliable. I played around with ETN a lot and tested many ETN-only caps, but there where never 100% reliable, what
is extremely annoying.
I've given up. Better protect yourself properly and use double salts etc.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Video or it didn't happen  Isn't the case from 1.5v AAA battery?
|
|
|
Forumdude
Harmless
Posts: 43
Registered: 6-2-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Hahaha I will post a video tonight , I set 6 of them off and all but one worked. The flash? And the casing is from inside a 9volt there is many little
AAA size battery's , I suppose a AAA would also work fine. Those EBW would probably work with primary's also just on a lower voltage , they glow red
when they are put on a lower voltage.
[Edited on 19-3-2013 by Forumdude]
|
|
|
dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 144
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
This is NOT an EBW.
| Quote: |
I set 6 of them off and all but one worked |
Yeah, they made nice bangs. But proper DDT?
I doubt it.
|
|
|
Forumdude
Harmless
Posts: 43
Registered: 6-2-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yeah a nice bang. Have you achieved Def to det on any of your ETN only caps? It's not a EBW , there is a little Element that gets instantly red hot.
[Edited on 19-3-2013 by Forumdude]
|
|
|
Bot0nist
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Streching my cotyledons.
|
|
lets see some controled tests agianst witness plates. It seems your flirting with the ETN "NPED" idea. Search, it has been done to death. IIRC,
thermal shock, and not direct ignition is the best way. else, to much material deflagrates. Good luck, and be safe.
Try a small tube with pressed or casted ETN, of minimal diameter, with a piece of good BP fuse completely covered in a few layers Al foil imbedded in
it. Ensure that no flame or spark can directly contact the ETN. just the rapid heating from the foil.
(Holmes?, lol)
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
I didn't know that ETN goes high order from thermal shock. I though it deflagrates and we can only hope for it to ddt.
|
|
|
Bot0nist
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Streching my cotyledons.
|
|
It is well known and recorded that small quantities of ETN will readily undergo detonation when confined in Al foil and strongly heated. Read the
thread, "ETN: Almost killed myself" for an example of a few mgs detonating in a glass test tube, to devastating effect, from rapid thermal shock.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
|
|
|
Ral123
National Hazard
Posts: 735
Registered: 31-12-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
And how efficient this detonation is and how reliable/predictable? Primarys are reliable to initiate high order certain secondaries. Many gun powders
are NG/NC and would also explode, but not detonate under such heating.
|
|
|
Bot0nist
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Streching my cotyledons.
|
|
I never claimed that it is more reliable or "better" than using the time tested standard of a primary explosive induced "train" for initiation of
insensitive secondary and tertiary explosives. Only that ETN readily undergoes full detonation when small amount, confined in foil, is rapidly heated.
I, myself, am not a fan of "NPEDs," but they have been researched and tested to death, both in the industrial, military, and hobbiest settings. A few
well worded searches should garner more information than you would ever need on the subject.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
|
|
|
Forumdude
Harmless
Posts: 43
Registered: 6-2-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | lets see some controled tests agianst witness plates. It seems your flirting with the ETN "NPED" idea. Search, it has been done to death. IIRC,
thermal shock, and not direct ignition is the best way. else, to much material deflagrates. Good luck, and be safe.
Try a small tube with pressed or casted ETN, of minimal diameter, with a piece of good BP fuse completely covered in a few layers Al foil imbedded in
it. Ensure that no flame or spark can directly contact the ETN. just the rapid heating from the foil.
(Holmes?, lol) |
Holmes? What?
|
|
|
Bot0nist
International Hazard
Posts: 1559
Registered: 15-2-2011
Location: Right behind you.
Member Is Offline
Mood: Streching my cotyledons.
|
|
Nevermind. There once was a character in a mostly fiction tale around these parts, who was near obsessed with ETN thermal shock caps, NPEDs, etc,
among other, ummm, eccentric intrests and quirks. It was just a wierd joke on my part, to see this come up agian.
see my sig.
No shots at you, at all intended. Im just a bit odd.
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
|
|
|
Kalium
Harmless
Posts: 33
Registered: 21-6-2012
Location: Australia
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist | Nevermind. There once was a character in a mostly fiction tale around these parts, who was near obsessed with ETN thermal shock caps, NPEDs, etc,
among other, ummm, eccentric intrests and quirks. It was just a wierd joke on my part, to see this come up agian.
see my sig.
No shots at you, at all intended. Im just a bit odd. |
Oh, he's still around. Just not actively posting.
|
|
|
dangerous amateur
Hazard to Others
Posts: 144
Registered: 8-7-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
If someone likes to develop such things for fun, why not?
I think it is doable, my caps, or rather little pipe b!mbs worked fine. I compared them with double salt/etn caps on steel plates and also with small
ammonal charges and they worked fine.
However, I did not do enough tests to be 100% sure.
If you do an laborious experiment with energetic material and it is ruined because the cap did not work not properly (but maybe properly enough to
f!ck up your work) you will see that homemade NEPDs are not worth the effort.
Invest the same effort in proper DS or LA caps and you'll be pleased.
[Edited on 21-3-2013 by dangerous amateur]
|
|
|
Hennig Brand
International Hazard
Posts: 1284
Registered: 7-6-2009
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
The small metal tubes from the 9 volt battery are actually AAAA (quadruple A) batteries, not AAA (triple A) batteries. This size is not nearly as
common as the AA and AAA types, being used for certain laser pointers and a couple of other applications. A bank of them welded together is commonly
found in 9V batteries though as we have seen.
From reading on these forums the last few years a little primary explosive pressed on top would seem to be much more reliable than the no primary
options with ETN.
[Edited on 3-6-2013 by Hennig Brand]
"A risk-free world is a very dull world, one from which we are apt to learn little of consequence." -Geerat Vermeij
|
|
|
Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1677
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
|
|
i think if you want it to be more reliable you should use a slowflash or star composition or... rocket fuel as in rocket candy, using slow burning
mixtures will shockheat the etn and thus making a small delay from you flick the button till it will go off
you can also try with copper oxide as it generates extreme amounts of heat in small amounts (sensitize it somehow?) as i experienced CuO + MgAl or GD
Al (1-3µm) isnt really sensitive liuke everybody claims it is
you could make a 1:1 KMnO4 CuO oxidizer and mix with MgAl perhaps? that would work very well im sure
problem with flash initiation is that you just want it to have a container that can hold in the pressure until its supposed to go off all at once as
flashpowder is alot less brisant than most primary HE's
|
|
|
Varmint
Hazard to Others
Posts: 264
Registered: 30-5-2013
Location: Near Atlanta, GA
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Assuming that cell casing is from a dry cell 9V, the case is zinc, and there is no way I'd use zinc in any initiator.
DAS
|
|
|
Krakermanworks
Harmless
Posts: 9
Registered: 6-9-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
ETN detonation without a primer
Hi I've heard etn can be detonated with just al foil, and rcandy (60:40 kno3:sugar) has anyone had success with this or other similar methods of
detonating etn, I don't want to use primers as the only primary's I can synthesis are hmtd/tatp wich I'd rather not use.
[Edited on 16-1-2014 by Krakermanworks]
|
|
|
Fuse
Harmless
Posts: 16
Registered: 25-2-2013
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Yes, in past I used the procedure in the picture
|
|
|
underground
National Hazard
Posts: 692
Registered: 10-10-2013
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline
|
|
What is that green one think like string ? visco fuse ?
|
|
|
markx
National Hazard
Posts: 645
Registered: 7-8-2003
Location: Northern kingdom
Member Is Offline
Mood: Very Jolly
|
|
It may work, but I have found it excruciatingly unreliable.....I have not tried the exact method on the picture but similar setups:
100-200mg ETN rolled up in Al foil, surrounded by a pyrotechnic mass (meal powder bound by rubber cement)
100-200mg ETN with flash charge on top in direct contact/separated by foil
100-200mg ETN hermetically sealed in capacitor casing (Al cup) surrounded by pyrotechnic mass
Results were around 2-4 times out of 10.....mostly deflagration or partial detonation. I did not try the direct addition of Al powder though, it might
hold the key to a more reliable initiation.
Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
|
|
|
| Pages:
1
2
3
4
5 |
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
