SWilkin676
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So Far no Issues
The reason I am posting this is because people are very nervous about chemistry and I'm not saying you shouldin't be - I was told not to talk about it
by people close to me at work because it is misunderstood by so many. But it May be that you don't have to panic about having a
legal chemistry lab.
Over this past weekend my partner and I were Baker Acted, I'll spare you the gory details but during the police visit they took photographs of both his chemistry lab and mine. No idea
exactly what was in view at the time and as far as I know, nothing we have is illegal where we live. I think they were concerned that he or I may
have taken something and therefore felt justified in taking pictures of all our chemistry stuff.
My son who was present explained that my partner is Aspergers and we are very unusual sort of people and he seems to feel that he scotched the idea
that we were a meth lab. There is definitely nothing like pseudoephedrine or matches or whatever else they tend to use. Lots of plants in various
stages of processing in my room. Various small amounts of acids, solvents, metals and dessicants in my partners lab as well as a large assortment of
complicated looking glassware, digital thermometers, vacuum pumps and such.
I suspect that the general disorder and variety of stuff (electronics, computers, leather, crafts, whips, chains, stockings, wiccan items etc.) may
have confused the issue or even put them off a bit since we haven't been arrested or even questioned about those items. We do have safety equipment
like various types of fire extinguishers and chemical absorbant powders.
I would most certainly have been put under an internal affairs investigation had there been anything obviously illegal about what we are doing.
I just hope that I am not speaking too soon. I suspect that we need to figure out a better way to deal with the problems life seems to throw at us
than getting suicidal or they are going to be pissed.
Anyway unless you hear otherwise even in very backwards places like where I am it is possible to do legal chemistry.
Suzee
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Ephoton
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Mood: trying to figure out why I need a dark room retreat when I live in a forest of wattle.
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good luck ive had four labs taken in my life and many friends done for labs as well.
im still here and well read my posts you will probably see I am not as inocent as yourself  .
e3500 console login: root
bash-2.05#
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JohnWW
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Well, that sucks! But you can get your own back by running some sort of campaign to unseat the $tate Congre$$people who passed those stupid,
oppressive, and badly thought-out and composed laws.
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SWilkin676
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Like I said, I may not be out of the woods yet, but my ex is a cop and he said if they were going to do anything they'd have done it at the time.
As far as I know there aren't any laws against chemistry glassware etc or the kind of herbal extractions I make, I suppose there is probably some
obscure regulation regarding pharmaceuticals but since I don't give them to anyone or sell them, I think it would be an uphill battle to make a case
out of.
On the other hand they prosecuted some guys for having a still and a vet for having some sort of medicine after one of his licenses had expired. He
was an upstanding citizen too - who gave his time voluntarily to care for the local birds.
I think they have their hands full with all the real meth labs to want to bother with something that "Might" be something fishy.
I think having the lab taken would kill my partner - he gets so upset when something we ordered on ebay arrives broken and could darned near kill
himself if he breaks something. He just really loves chemistry with a passion that is hard to understand at times, (although the bug seems to have
bitten me too).
And I've found that the word chemical and chemistry in general is associated with bad things no matter who you are talking to.
Suzee
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SWilkin676
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Quote: Originally posted by Ephoton  | good luck ive had four labs taken in my life and many friends done for labs as well.
im still here and well read my posts you will probably see I am not as inocent as yourself .
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Note the whips and chains (I really wasn't kidding there) etc - I'm don't think innocent exactly fits either of us.
Suzee
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psychokinetic
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Unucky for those who don't like lighters and have stuffy noses. <me  >
I also never do any work to do with my chosen path at home (pharmaceuticals)... 'cause I know how well that could go down.
“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found
the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
-Tesla
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hissingnoise
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Suzee, it sounds like you and your partner had an Orwellian experience - and perhaps you shouldn't have spared us the gory details. . .
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not_important
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From friends living in the U.S. Southeast, this | Quote: | | I suspect that the general disorder and variety of stuff (electronics, computers, leather, crafts, whips, chains, stockings, wiccan items etc.)
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may cause problems; Florida may be a bit better, but a one-time housemate lived in the Panhandle and told
disturbing stories. The Wiccan items in particular, some of the other stuff can get lots of noise on deviants but I suspect that's just jealousy on
the part of local conservative voices; acquaintances in that region who had similar LEA actions tell of losing such gear as "evidence", having no
charges filed or having them dropped when it became clear they were bogus, but never seeing the gear again. One once said "lot of the good ol boys
see to have a thing for net stocking and nipple clamps, but just can't bring themselves to buy them themselves". But Wiccan? That can lead to things
like the McMartin ritual abuse case.
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SWilkin676
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Well they didn't actually remove anything from the house to our knowledge other than us. And the wiccan is mostly subtle as is the buddhism. (you'd
have to take a close look at our bookshelves and possibly understand the significance of things like ceremonial knives which are in general pretty
popular around here) The floggers and cuffs hanging from the wall on the bedroom are less subtle and there is nothing hidden in our chemistry and
other hobbies (woodworking, metalworking, electronics etc).
Right now though, I'm stuck in paperwork because I can't go back to work until someone at the hospital certifies me as able to perform my job duties.
I am about 60 days away from retirement eligibility so if this gets sticky, I may have to hire an employment lawyer.
I think getting busted for having a lab that isn't making anything illegal would pretty much put a cap on the problems I'm having with life in general
- so ya'll feel free to make a big deal out of it if they drive me to suicide. (I hear NO2 with a bag on the head is a fun way to go - I'm not
serious about it right now, but if they arrest us or raid our house I may be).
Suzee
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bbartlog
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I wouldn't take being arrested as some sort of absolutely crushing event. I've been arrested, and while it was no fun it's hardly the end of the
world.
Also, you mean N2O (laughing gas), not NO2 (though it also kills you by forming nitric acid with the water in your body). But I wouldn't suggest
either.
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SWilkin676
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Thanks, I'm not real big on remember acronyms or terminology which means I try to avoid communicating too much in chemistry because I'm a long way
from having the various notations even close to memorized. I look it up each time.
Getting arrested would mean losing my job, retirement, house, property etc etc etc. Worse would be the loss of what little freedom is still possible
in this country. That would pretty much put an end to my desire to live.
Perhaps it's like losing your virginity no big deal after the first time??
I sure hate the mental home, so I don't doubt I'd hate prison even more. I can't stand being in the hospital either. I go nuts from nothing to do.
We don't watch tv or read magazines or other "normal" pursuits so I'm pretty much lost when forced to live amongst "normals" and follow all the rules
they have.
[Edited on 5-6-2010 by SWilkin676]
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SWilkin676
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| Quote: Originally posted by not_important | From friends living in the U.S. Southeast, this | Quote: | | I suspect that the general disorder and variety of stuff (electronics, computers, leather, crafts, whips, chains, stockings, wiccan items etc.)
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may cause problems; Florida may be a bit better, but a one-time housemate lived in the Panhandle and told
disturbing stories. The Wiccan items in particular, some of the other stuff can get lots of noise on deviants but I suspect that's just jealousy on
the part of local conservative voices; acquaintances in that region who had similar LEA actions tell of losing such gear as "evidence", having no
charges filed or having them dropped when it became clear they were bogus, but never seeing the gear again. One once said "lot of the good ol boys
see to have a thing for net stocking and nipple clamps, but just can't bring themselves to buy them themselves". But Wiccan? That can lead to things
like the McMartin ritual abuse case.
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No children allowed anywhere near my home. My kids are grown and were raised by my ex who is a cop and I together so nothing there. I didn't come
out kinky or explore alternatives to conservatism until after we were divorced.
I do need to make sure they don't ever get called here again though!!
Suzee
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hissingnoise
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Suzee, when things get me down I compare my experiences to those of someone with much worse problems.
It's easy and it always works. . .
If you have good weed it can work wonders!
| Quote: |
I do need to make sure they don't ever get called here again though!!
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But if they do call to your house again it'll be a bitch but not the end of the world.
I've been busted twice!
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SWilkin676
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You're right, but if you know your neurochemistry you know that sometimes the brain can self destruct. I usually try to think of down times like a
storm that will pass.
It's interesting you mention weed - we've been under prolonged stress for several years now and I was researching the HPA axis and adrenal responses.
The system can reprogram itself to be on a hair trigger which is a real pain - can't eat, can't sleep, suspicious of everyone and everything and body
so tense it hurts.
Lo and behold Endocannabinoids are one way to reset an overloaded adrenal system. I can't do anything like that right now, because I am a computer
staffer at a law enforcement agency - I am subject to random drug testing and stand to lose a 89K a year salary and great retirement benefits if I
screw up. So I'm stuck for a while to things that are legal.
My partner has been arrested a lot but never been convicted - just probation which is a pain. (can we say bitch??) I think the drug war is stupid
and it's a terrible waste of lives to put people in jail for it. But I can't really participate without risking more than I can afford to right now.
For those of you who hate cops I can understand, it depends on who you get - there's good ones and bad ones and many think the laws are stupid. But a
lot of policy put in by the Feds and management ties their hands. One cop I know got fired for tossing a bag of marijuana in the lake and telling the
kids to go home.
So much for Andy Griffith.
Suzee
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MadHatter
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Labs And Other Issues
Suzee, I sympathise with your situation. I used to be a systems programmer/analyst
many years ago for a DoD contractor until my layoff. When the drug screening came into
play it was the end of the weed for me. Now I'm a commercial driver and drug
screening is mandatory. You said you work for a law enforcement agency and your
ex is a cop. I understand completely. My stepfather was a narc in the U.S. Coast Guard
and ocassionally I got my ass chewed out for smoking weed even into adulthood. But he
learned to live with it, figuring I was going to do what I wanted. I didn't get high in the
house though. That would have been the ultimate in disrespect.
As for the person with the still, I don't know about laws regarding "possession" but if
caught in the act of distilling alcohol, that person is in it up to the eyebrows to be sure.
Anti-booze making laws are just as ridiculous as anti-drug laws but don't make all the
headlines quite like a narcotics raid.
Like you, I'w waiting for the doctor's clearance to return to work. I'm on sick leave until
then. Not a problem because I have over 15 weeks of sick leave built up. In my case,
I passed/blacked out behind the wheel and had a minor accident. This was caused by
anti-hypertensive medication.
As for chem labs, my experiences have been non-invasive. My parents, including the narc,
never objected to my lab so long as I didn't burn or blowup the house. My love and joy
is pyrotechnics. My parents knew this and didn't object. They even had a hell of a
good laugh and shared that experience with family members the day I blew off my eyebrows
when I got careless with Armstrong's mixture. Phosphorus burns are PAINFUL ! My
friends nicknamed me "The Nutty Professor" after that experience.
Over the years the police have seen my labs but the labs were never the focus of their
presence. The 1st occurence happened at age 15 and the issue at hand was my weed
smoking. This is how my parents found out about my drug use and the "scream at me"
rituals were thus initiated.
The last 2 times the local constabularies saw my lab arose out of domestic disturbances.
In other words. my drunken bum room mate lost his noodle after consuming too much
vodka and was screaming at me, the neighbors, the cats, etc. Of course the police
were called. The police would talk to me in my bedroom where I store most of my
lab gear. My bedroom is cramped and I have lab gear all over the place. The cops
would have to be blind to not observe all the sparkling glassware, especially my
collection of condensers. There are various flasks, beakers, retorts, etc. in plain view.
One flask in particular, an 18-litre(YES ! 18-litre) round bottom boiling flask, sits
near 3 mortar & pestle combinations as well as 3 scales - a triple-beam, a
quadra-beam, and a bullet powder reloading scale.
The police never questioned me or photographed my gear. I'm sure I'm on some law
enforcement's "keep an eye on this bastard" list somewhere. One thing's for
sure. I' don't keep compounds on the premises. I acquire them when needed.
I wish you the best of luck and hopefully nothing will come out of your lab being seen.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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IrC
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MadHatter
"As for the person with the still, I don't know about laws regarding "possession" but if
caught in the act of distilling alcohol, that person is in it up to the eyebrows to be sure.
Anti-booze making laws are just as ridiculous as anti-drug laws but don't make all the
headlines quite like a narcotics raid."
In some states like Arkansas where I am you can have a micro brewery. I know they are for beer but the limit is 200 gallons per year. Supposing they
have no record of how many gallons you made so far, it would seem there would be no legal problem for simply having the still, unless it is giant and
full of hundreds of gallons of course. What I do not know is if there is a proof limit. Never had my own beer factory so never looked into laws. But I
imagine the only still related item they could nail you for is if it were full of large amounts of real moonshine, rocket fuel. For all I know you are
limited to under 10 proof for beer home brewing. Something worth investigating in your location anyway.
"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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SWilkin676
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| Quote: Originally posted by MadHatter | Suzee, I sympathise with your situation. I used to be a systems programmer/analyst
many years ago for a DoD contractor until my layoff. When the drug screening came into
play it was the end of the weed for me. Now I'm a commercial driver and drug
screening is mandatory. You said you work for a law enforcement agency and your
ex is a cop. I understand completely. My stepfather was a narc in the U.S. Coast Guard
and ocassionally I got my ass chewed out for smoking weed even into adulthood. But he
learned to live with it, figuring I was going to do what I wanted. I didn't get high in the
house though. That would have been the ultimate in disrespect.
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I'm almost out of sick leave - I had 400+ hours built up but when my 2nd husband got colon cancer and ultimately died of it, I used it all up. Then I
had a little built up and my current partner's Akita snapped at me and I lost 1/2 my lower lip and ripped open my face on that side. That chewed up
quite a bit. I have been donating to the sick leave pool which is what you use when you are out of leave, but was ineligible to donate because I got
Baker acted in December of last year and therefore used up the remainder of my sick leave.
I may have to go get a lawyer if they don't at least let me hang on til my birthday in August - I turn 50 and first eligibility for retirement. I've
been there 15 years. Maybe we should start a meth lab..... (SARCASM!!)
Thanks for the sympathy. Sometimes I think I am the only person who has a life that would be considered too unrealistic for a soap opera (East
Enders still on? I lived in Shotley Gate near Ipswich for 3 years).
Oh yeah, my partner had similar chemical interests when he was a kid - he said he used to make napalm and toss stuff onto motorists on the
philadelphia freeway and other mayhem he never got caught for. He got me somewhat into chemistry because I wouldn't make it 5 minutes in a classroom
so never had any opportunity to actually do stuff with it. And I once read a book called "Engines of Creation" which was prophetic in it's vision of
what we can do with Chemistry. Too bad no one ever bothered to create the nano-machines that would turn oil spills into harmless chemicals. I live
in FL!
Suzee
[Edited on 6-6-2010 by SWilkin676]
[Edited on 6-6-2010 by SWilkin676]
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