chem_enthusiast
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Butyric acid from Calcium/Magnesium Butyrate?
Hello,
I want to "extract" the butyric acid from these capsules:
http://www.bodybio.com/storeproduct360.aspx
I have only basic chemistry knowledge and absolutely no chem gear. I read that Butyrate is miscible in water and oil. Could that be a way of
extracting it?
The other way I can find butyric acid is by buying n-butyryc acid used for fishing. A few drops of it strongly attracts fish. But I am concerned that
won't be pure enough for human use (me).
I'm sorry if my question is in any way inappropriate for this forum. Thanks.
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Nicodem
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If you are going to eat that, you might as well eat those calcium/magnesium butyrate capsules. They turn to butyric acid in your stomach anyway. Why
would you want to eat something as disgusting and smelly as butyric acid? That is not only stupid and useless, it is also highly disgusting. Already
the thought of doing something like that nearly makes me vomit.
Beginner question go to Beginners section, where this is headed as well.
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Nicodem
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Thread Moved
2-7-2010 at 14:18 |
chem_enthusiast
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I am not going to eat it, I'll use it as an ointment (mixed with oil).
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Rich_Insane
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Err, I highly doubt it would be useful as an ointment. You would smell like vomit and bad cheese to everyone. I believe it has possible
irritant/corrosive effects as well.
But this thread is not about your intent with the butyric acid. Does H2SO4 work to release carboxylic acids from their salts? If not, you may want to
look into methyl ethyl ketone... It looks as if it could be oxidized via chromic acid to butyric acid. Seriously though. It is not pleasant. One guy
in my lab was working with bacteria that oxidize alcohols to butyric acid and reduce synthetic butyric acid. None of the students wanted to stay in
his workspace too long. Personally it isn't very bad to me. I suppose thiols smell a lot worse to me.
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Nicodem
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Ointment? So you are sociophobic and want people to avoid you like a plague? Good idea!
Just buy it pure. Why bothering with some capsules? But if you want to play chemistry then the first thing is to realize that those pills appear not
to contain butyric acid. They could hardly contain any given that butyric acid is a liquid at room temperature. They keep on misleading consumers by
claiming it contains butyric acid, but in the FAQ they provide some information that show their product actually contains a mixture of calcium
butyrate and magnesium butyrate. Though, in their FAQ they list completely incompatible chemicals:
| Quote: | What are the ingredients in Calcium Magnesium Butyrate?
Butyric Acid, Calcium Hydroxide, Magnesium Hydroxide, and Diglycerides |
Obviously, this is nonsense as both Ca(OH)2 and Mg(OH)2 react with butyric acid. So, I think it is safe to conclude that product contains mostly
calcium and magnesium butyrate. These must first be chemically converted to the butyric acid. This is done by protonation, which essentially means
that you need to acidify those salt to obtain a solution of butyric acid (for example by using a 2M solution of HCl(aq), or similar). From that
solution you can then extract butyric acid with ethyl acetate. Butyric acid has the logP of 0.751 (see DOI: 10.1021/ie8010337), so it can be quite
efficiently extracted by polar enough solvents like ethyl acetate. Then you have to distil the extraction solution with a distillation column and
collect the fraction boiling at 163°C (or lower if you distil under reduced pressure which would be preferred). The diglycerides would get extracted
as well, but would not distil over, as they are less volatile (though it does not say diglycerides of which acid are they).
A simplified method would be to just thoroughly mix the capsule contents with NaHSO4 monohydrate (as a nonvolatile acid) and then dry distil out
butyric acid. The distillate would have to be redistilled though.
Mind that all this may only be valid if there are no other components in that capsules that are not listed.
Edit: Rich_Insane, oxidation of methyl ethyl ketone would utmost give a mixture of propanoic and acetic acids, but not butyric acid.
[Edited on 2/7/2010 by Nicodem]
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scientific temper, not in the scientific defense of the theory. - Weston La Barre (Ghost Dance, 1972)
Read the The ScienceMadness Guidelines!
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chem_enthusiast
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I am concerned that if I buy the fish-additive, it won't be pure butyric acid. How can I purify it?
Another option is buying Sodium Butyrate... would that be easier to extract?
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Skyjumper
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It most likely is pure(ish) butyric acid. I have a large bottle (in the lab acid cabinet- its a PVC coated glass bottle in another thick poly bag. It
smells bad,. real bad
Anyway, I thing user wants this for bad reasons, I am pretty sure sodium butyrate doesn't smell,if it were for an ointment he could most likely use
that. His intents are most likely malicious.
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bbartlog
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Too suspicious by half, what mischief is someone going to manage with a few grams of butyric acid? And it is believed to have some health benefits
hence its availability as a supplement. I know that it is used to make stinkbombs by e.g. antiwhaling activists but that would require rather more.
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Skyjumper
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Its still an acid. It has some corrosive aspects, not to mention like I said above it smells. Why would you want to put smelly ointment on you? Maybe
on a not-so-friend.
A few grams is more than enough, trust me.
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chem_enthusiast
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Quote: Originally posted by Skyjumper  |
Anyway, I thing user wants this for bad reasons, I am pretty sure sodium butyrate doesn't smell,if it were for an ointment he could most likely use
that. His intents are most likely malicious. |
The only one endangered would be me - experimenting with it. But your post make me think about other people reading this public forum and trying that
kind of, probably, reckless experimenting themselves.
So, moderators, please, delete this thread.
Thanks to everyone for their input here.
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Satan
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Propionic acid can be salted out from mixture with water by CaCl2(Merck Index), so probably very easy method would be to mix calcium butyrate with
hydrochloric acid (1:2 mols), and probably add some CaCl2. Your acid would be top layer, dry and/or distill .
Also from Merck Index for butyric acid: "The calcium salt of this acid is less soluble in hot than in cold water".
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JohnWW
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What is butyric acid used for in Hell, Satan? I thought that the smell of H2S, SO2, H2Se, S8 vapor, mercaptans, etc., there was bad enough, without
having to add butyric acid to it.
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