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Author: Subject: Frightning chemicals on ebay
peach
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[*] posted on 10-10-2010 at 09:25


Someone bought the acid.

I was very close to buying it (having found a cheap shipping option), but then I figured there wasn't really an easy enough way to get it back to 36% and clean; even distilling it, it wouldn't come back to the full concentration.




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jon
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[*] posted on 17-10-2010 at 10:42


speaking of e-snitch i tried to do some large transactions cash and carry off ebay and they wanted to pay auction fees and go through thier system which always piques my suspicions.
even offered more money as it was'nt the object nope nope they reply.
i just deal with trusted chemical houses.
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peach
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[*] posted on 18-10-2010 at 22:10


It's not that suspicious.

I offer to pay in cash all the time so people don't have the transaction charges to deal with. Or transfer directly to their bank account.

A lot of people don't want random people from the internet turning up at their homes, particularly if it's to do with chemicals or laboratory gear.

Others don't want the hassle of checking their bank accounts.

And others are using the checkout system for their record keeping, particularly the ones that are actual shops in real life and that need the invoices as proof of sale for the tax returns.

PayPal is an utter joke. I've spoken to a lot of people who've forgotten they have telephone / online banking. Something is telling me, a transfer directly between the banks is going to be more secure than the super secure service PayPal witter on about.

It's free. And if you pay the cash in, in person, to the teller, they'll give you a signed receipt from the bank. There will be no arguing over the validity of THAT in court.

eBay used to not accept PayPal for paying my seller fees, because of the ridiculous transaction charges. Now they own it, they not only accept it, they force me to offer it on every single auction and, for some of them, nothing else. Some of the categories they apply that to are equally ridiculous, I don't usually sell designer clothing, let alone knocked off designer clothing.

Forcing people to solely use the system they own, and charge for, is skirting the monopoly laws regarding free trade. Legal, but also not really in the spirit of the law.

They also went through a period of not letting the seller back charge for the transaction fees. Then modified that to say, well, if you include the PayPal logo in the auction, it's okay.

They're also planning to ditch all the auctions (which require staff to moderate) and switch to just being a shop. Great, so a decades worth of people making the site famous by auctions will now become a shop. An auction site, that is a fixed price shop. That is one long term advertising plan.

They're doing it all the time. I'm on there literally everyday having a look around, and have been since I was about 14. They're constantly playing with every fine detail to get the absolute maximum out of people by pushing it in ways most of the users don't realize, constantly tweaking the agreements, the bid histories, the fraud protection and so on.

There is one universal constant, they will always tell you they're doing it for your security and to make things easier for you. Like the anti-ter-roar on the radio all the time.

I have come very close to taking eBay to court, over £12 they withdrew from my bank account after I presented them with all the postage receipts, codes and told them I was in the process of making a claim in the first place.

Even still, when I'm talking with their legal department, they'll try to fob you off with utter bullshit that is just entirely invalid in a court. The judge will tell them to drop it.

They make it look legal and it'll work for pretty much all of the users. But, if you have some experience with trade laws and courts, it certainly is not. Their terms are not what the law says you're entitled to, and neither they (nor anyone else, including yourself) can overrule the law with your own terms and conditions.

e.g. "Works fine, but no returns" <---- Legally unsound.

[Edited on 19-10-2010 by peach]




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[*] posted on 20-10-2010 at 20:49


Quote: Originally posted by Chainhit222  
You are safe unless the vendor gets popped and is forced to give his manifest to the authorities :)




you guys are going to worry yourselves to an early grave. I am one of the ebay vendors that you discuss, I have/had Prochemika, I had listed over time borohydride, lithium aluminum hydride, sodium hydride, acetyl bromide, diethylamine, propiophenone, benzylic acid, DCM, MEK, toluene, acetic acid, permanganate, dichromate, benzyl chloride, diphenylacetic acid, diphenylacetonitrile, acetonitrile, quinone, isopropyl nitrite, activated manganese dioxide, hydrobromic acid, sodium cyanate, cyclohexanone, mercuric chloride, tert butanol, palladium chloride, palladium on carbon and so on...

ebay was not my only business, we were a legit registered business and all stock was properly cleared through customs one item at a time and they were given to us under the understanding that they were for resale. No matter what you think, if a chemical is not specifically specified as an illegal chemical, there are only like two illegal chemicals that aren't drugs, GBL and P2P. All others are listed either threshold or not, listed means regulated if over threshold, there are many excemptions, for example, I could sell you benzaldehyde under threshold so long as it is put up for packaging for end user and my company sells more than just chemicals. If its over threshold or I only sell chemicals then its regulated and i need a permit and must keep records of the sale but I don't need to report. ONly blatantly suspicious orders are supposed to be reported.
I had 3,4methylenedioxyhydromethylcinnamaldehyde on there for a while, it isn't even watched, you can't be arrested for having an unlisted chemical, come on you guys, you are being paranoid. With respect to the comment about how it doesn't matter what you have you can be arrested for conspiracy or whatever, YES you are right, but in that case EVERYTHING is illegal, coffee filters, pop bottles you use to store stuff, distilled water. An unregulated chemical can be purchased and sold like costume jewellery and there is nothing police can do about it.

Case in point. I was raided by transport canada agents about four months ago. I foolishly tried to save a cheap bastard a few bucks cuz he would n't pay for tdg shipping but had already bought the product and refused to reverse the sale, so i expressed it to him and I got nailed.
when transport came all they cared about was whether or not the chemicals were allowed for transport in passenger carriers. They said all the chemicals were cleared by customs and you can do as you please with them but you have to ship them right. Even though i was very friendly they got nervous after seeing my files from my military backgroumd as a scout sniper and training in your ODA program so they called in an rcmp car. He had a look around and saw a bottle of gaba (in a nutritional supplements company with ingredient lists and products all over containing the product) so he decided he found a ghb lab, one with no equipment at all. He didn't care about the 25 bottles of methylamine, diethylamine, quinone, phenylacetonitrile, red phos, phenylacetic acid, sodium azide, iodine...nothing, they didn't show up as regulated under the context he was investigating so he arrested me for ghb production and i went to jail for the night. by morning they were my best friends and apologizing as they found no evidence. they were curious if i was able to make a living on the chems and if i felt like i may be supplying any drug labs. I said no and i only sell maximum of 250g containers so a lab can't do much with that. so he said ok well you'll get all your stuff back when we close the case and we aren't charging you with the twenty five mdma tablets or fifty bottles of trenbolone acetate or the fifty thousand clenbuterol tabs and other homone drugs. He said they just want to be sure not to release anything under excemption because i have a record and can't get a permit and i hadn't designated a person in charge. They took only the phenylacetic acid because it was in the reagent bottle, not one with a product name for end use.
Transport wanted to veiw my records and i refused, they said i could go to jail but i still refused, they called ebay and...............................EBAY TOLD THEM TO FUCK OFF!!!! you guys are jumping to conclusions and listening to drug folklore, take it from me, i've lived the ebay nightmare, they are not in the business of getting you in trouble. Its those bastard busy body cunts who get off looking for guys selling something that is three times removed as a useful chem and reporting it to the dea and they have a duty to follow up.
I was paid by the rcmp to do a seminar as they knew my background, i'd been popped for production before, addressing the safety factors they face going into a lab. You would not believe the ignorance, they know nothing, for them looking at my list or my friends in vancouver with the phosphorous acid etc.. is like looking at the list of a ceramics supplier, its meaningless, if its not exactly on the list they have no idea, its in german to them. I flooded them with false information and misdirection but did tell them what they needed to be safe going in. I didn't go back into business but one did pull me over one time to ask if i managed to get business back on track and just what i was up to.
The list that started this thread is not a problem, not one problem on there. If you think the man has time to come and arrest you and put you on trial and pay a hundred thousand dollars per year to keep you in prison because you bought 3,4 dimethoxy benzaldehyde that isn't even a drug chemical then you are feeling a little self important.
here it is right from the mouths of LE, "we can only pay attention to the biggest cases, usually tips from informants and agents, we couldn't care less about people buying small bottles of research reagents, we don't have the resources. If its in our face, yes we will proceed but we don't comb ebay and forums looking for people buying or selling bits of this or that"
one time they called and said hey b, we see that you imported two kg of borohydride, it sat at customs with a ripped label and they got suspicious it may be a bomb or something so they got us over to take a sample. Just want to check its in your posession now and safe. Can we have your word this isnt going to any drug production, we know it can be used for that but you just have to act ethically for yourself, we can't make you stop, its not illegal.
Yah, its a lynch mob. They aren't that bad gents, they are bad when you are a prick crying constitution and police brutality while they put you in the car, treat as you wish to be treated and they will reciprocate.
Relax and just don't be stupid, you have rights as citizens of your country to do as you please so long as you don't breaki the law, don't let them make you feel like they can make the laws as they go.
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mr.crow
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[*] posted on 21-10-2010 at 06:25


Thank you very much for your post bremac.

I saw your store on ebay and wondered why it disappeared. Did you get your reagents back? Are you still willing to sell them?




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[*] posted on 21-10-2010 at 14:56


Okay, being that it will soon be Halloween

I 'm curious , so how do you frighten a chemical ?

Do you just unscrew the top off the jar and say Booo ?


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entropy51
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[*] posted on 21-10-2010 at 16:44


Quote:
Even though i was very friendly they got nervous after seeing my files from my military backgroumd as a scout sniper and training in your ODA program so they called in an rcmp car.

by morning they were my best friends and apologizing as they found no evidence. I was paid by the rcmp to do a seminar as they knew my background, i'd been popped for production before, addressing the safety factors they face going into a lab.

I flooded them with false information and misdirection but did tell them what they needed to be safe going in. I didn't go back into business but one did pull me over one time to ask if i managed to get business back on track and just what i was up to.
Sniffff. Is that the odor of troll?
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spirocycle
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[*] posted on 21-10-2010 at 18:30


Quote:
so he said ok well you'll get all your stuff back when we close the case and we aren't charging you with the twenty five mdma tablets or fifty bottles of trenbolone acetate or the fifty thousand clenbuterol tabs and other homone drugs.


wat?
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psychokinetic
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[*] posted on 21-10-2010 at 19:40


"they called ebay and...............................EBAY TOLD THEM TO FUCK OFF!!!"

Heh, heh.




“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
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food
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[*] posted on 21-10-2010 at 19:51


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  

I 'm curious , so how do you frighten a chemical ?
.


it's good to scare them periodically

helps keep them in their element

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Synthettek
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[*] posted on 22-10-2010 at 05:15


Quote: Originally posted by bremac  

you guys are going to worry yourselves to an early grave. I am one of the ebay vendors that you discuss, I have/had Prochemika.


Good to see you back again, brother. I sent you a U2U.
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[*] posted on 22-10-2010 at 08:38


i'm having an mdp2p blowout on ebay next week first come, first served.
really? i can set up shop like that?
cool thanks!!!!


[Edited on 22-10-2010 by jon]
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[*] posted on 22-10-2010 at 19:39


Your words make sense, but I still don't trust up and coming judges and DA's as others have said.
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[*] posted on 22-10-2010 at 22:07


never underestimate the ambition of a fresh law school graduate.
and the very worst and the worst of the are those black robed priests who are convinced they are doing the work of the lord.
I have also read from statements of ebay represenatives that they will hand over information to LE upon request.
i find the sources and gladly cite them.

[Edited on 23-10-2010 by jon]
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[*] posted on 22-10-2010 at 23:30


Quote:
If you think the man has time to come and arrest you and put you on trial and pay a hundred thousand dollars per year to keep you in prison because you bought 3,4 dimethoxy benzaldehyde that isn't even a drug chemical then you are feeling a little self important.


I don't know Canadian law, but in a number of US states possession of 3,4-methylenedioxybenzaldehyde is a 10 year mandatory minimum felony. It's a different story entirely down here.




I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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[*] posted on 22-10-2010 at 23:54


Quote: Originally posted by madscientist  
Quote:
If you think the man has time to come and arrest you and put you on trial and pay a hundred thousand dollars per year to keep you in prison because you bought 3,4 dimethoxy benzaldehyde that isn't even a drug chemical then you are feeling a little self important.


I don't know Canadian law, but in a number of US states possession of 3,4-methylenedioxybenzaldehyde is a 10 year mandatory minimum felony. It's a different story entirely down here.

3,4-Dimethoxybenzaldehyde (aka veratraldehyde) is not a drug precursor and as far as I know its commerce is not regulated in any country whatsoever. It is a moderately common chemical and also quite cheap. 3,4-Methylenedioxybenzaldehyde (aka piperonal) is a different chemical and the commerce of this one is indeed regulated in some countries, though I never heard that there are actually countries where its possession would be illegal (though it does not surprise me if this is due to some obscure US state law).




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madscientist
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 03:27


Thought he might've been thinking of piperonal, since he was mentioning a lot of precursors in his post.

Either way, maybe you can get away with what he had in Canada, but in the US he would've gone to jail for a long time. I don't want anyone having any misconceptions on this, as the consequences are far too severe for mistakes.




I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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jon
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 04:52


in some states possesion of 5 grams phenyl acetic acid = automatic intent charges/
along with other things like red p and iodine without permit.
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anotheronebitesthedust
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 15:59


From the US federal sentencing guidelines.
http://www.ussc.gov/2010guid/20100121_Reader_Friendly_Propos...
Quote:
List I Chemicals Level 12
Less than 2.7 KG of Anthranilic Acid;
Less than 3.6 G of Benzaldehyde;
Less than 80 G of Benzyl Cyanide;
Less than 800 MG of Ergonovine;
Less than 1.6 G of Ergotamine;
Less than 80 G of Ethylamine;
Less than 8.8 G of Hydriodic Acid;
Less than 5 G of Iodine;
Less than 1.44 KG of Isosafrole;
Less than 800 MG of Methylamine;
Less than 3.6 KG of N-Acetylanthranilic Acid;
Less than 2.25 KG of N-Methylephedrine;
Less than 2.25 KG of N-Methylpseudoephedrine;
Less than 2.5 G of Nitroethane;
Less than 40 G of Norpseudoephedrine;
Less than 80 G of Phenylacetic Acid;
Less than 40 G of Piperidine;
Less than 1.44 KG of Piperonal;
Less than 7.2 G of Propionic Anhydride;
Less than 1.44 KG of Safrole;
Less than 1.8 KG of 3, 4-Methylenedioxyphenyl-2-propanone;
Less than 4.5 L of Gamma-butyrolactone;
Less than 3 G of Red Phosphorus, White Phosphorus, or Hypophosphorous Acid;

List II Chemicals
Less than 66 G of Acetic Anhydride;
Less than 7.05 KG of Acetone;
Less than 120 G of Benzyl Chloride;
Less than 6.45 KG of Ethyl Ether;
Less than 7.2 KG of Methyl Ethyl Ketone;
Less than 60 G of Potassium Permanganate;
Less than 7.8 KG of Toluene.


Of course they still need to prove intent.
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 17:52


Theres a lot of uranium on ebay, I always thought that was a bit odd.
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 18:09


I don't get that list at all? So you can get prosecuted for having less than 7.05kg of acetone or you can't be? If it is less than that's ridiculous.
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 18:46


Admittedly that's a lot of acetone, but you'd be screwed if you just wanted to stock up so you could always have clean fingernails.



“If Edison had a needle to find in a haystack, he would proceed at once with the diligence of the bee to examine straw after straw until he found the object of his search.
I was a sorry witness of such doings, knowing that a little theory and calculation would have saved him ninety per cent of his labor.”
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madscientist
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[*] posted on 23-10-2010 at 21:23


Quote:
Of course they still need to prove intent.


They need to prove intent for "intent to manufacture" charges. They do not need to prove intent for lesser, though still very serious, "possession of a precursor" charges.




I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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[*] posted on 1-11-2010 at 10:09


Oh no the Canadian eBay seller in question no longer has anything for sale

Someone in Quebec is spamming a lot of Iodine crystals. Some real iodine would be nice to get ahold of, not the home made stuff.




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[*] posted on 1-11-2010 at 14:17


what's the difference? i have made it from potassium iodide and sublime it twice for cleaning. it produces some very pretty blueish silvery crystals almost an inch and a half long like little sword tips. quite nice looking and rather pure.



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