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Xenos
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Ammonium Nitrate and detonation
I have a pound of ammonium nitrate, and have read about its various destructive compounds like ANFO and ANNM etc. All of these are hard to detonate,
and require a blasting cap or starter compound. Just in case i ever need this information, what would be a good, and easy thing to make with ammonium
nitrate, and how would I set it off?
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madscientist
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By the way, ANNM is actually supposed to be quite easy to detonate. There are some more sensitizers that can be used other than nitromethane and
diesel. Mononitrotoluenes work well as a sensitizer. Toluene, xylene are supposed to work well - but won't increase sensitivity enough to allow you to
just use a blasting cap. Urea should make a good sensitizer, because a small amount of the sensitive urea nitrate would become present. Oxamide might
work well too. One that should be particularily good is a polysulfide (there's a thread on preparing polysulfides in the General Chemistry section).
Sulfur is supposed to be a decent sensitizer, but again, probably won't increase sensitivity of the ammonium nitrate enough to allow you to just use a
blasting cap. Some people have used charcoal, but I don't think that mix would be too sensitive either. Lots of people have been using mixes of
ammonium nitrate and acetone peroxide, which I consider to be a death wish. Nitroglycerine has been used in the past, creating a very easily initiated
dynamite (if you make that, dissolve your nitroglycerine in acetone, then mix it with the ammonium nitrate, and let the acetone evaporate off - much
safer than mixing in straight nitroglycerine).
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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madscientist
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Oh sorry, I didn't read your post carefully enough. You aren't going to find an ammonium nitrate mixture that can be detonated without a blasting cap
(simply a small charge of a primary explosive). Only primary explosives and low explosives will explode when contacted with flame. All ammonium
nitrate compositions are secondary explosives - explosives that require a blasting cap and sometimes even a booster to detonate.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Xenos
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Whats the difference between primary, low, and secondary explosives?
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madscientist
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I'll write an explanation of the basics of explosives. 
Low explosives explode by burning very fast - deflagration. They are ignited with a fuse. Primary explosives burn so fast that they create a shockwave
that detonates the rest of the primary explosive when exposed to flame. Secondary explosives usually are barely flammable. They can only be detonated
by a shockwave, which is generated by a primary explosive. Some secondary explosives are so insensitive that to set them off, a booster is used - that
is a charge of a more sensitive secondary - the booster is detonated with the primary. Basically a booster just makes the blasting cap a hell of a lot
bigger.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Xenos
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Hope im not being annoying, but what are some examples of each. If i get this straight, black powder, flash, etc would be a low explosive. Secondary
is most ammonium nitrate compounds/ mixes, C4, RDX, etc. and then whats a primary explosive?
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madscientist
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Don't worry, you're not being annoying.
You've got those examples right. Here's a few examples of primary explosives: HMTD, acetone peroxide, DDNP, lead picrate, lead azide, and mercury
fulminate.
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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Madog
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ANNM is quite sensitive. i have heard that a .22 of pressed HMTD will do it. this has a high VoD. great for shape charges. the VoD is in the 7000s
ANFO is a bitch, need i say more? probaly. u need a huge booster and confinement realy helps
i have done AN/MNT. i used 500mg of PETN to deonate it. but the AN was damp so it was partial. i bet it would have whent off if not wet. maybe not
tho. but if not im sure 1g of PETN would have done it
AN/AP is of course very sensitive. and dangerous. but i think it needs a shockwave to go throughout it detonateing the AP in every part of it to make
it fully det. this was infact my first secondary. that was way back before anyone knew about it. way before the ANAP topic at the E&W
AN/MEKP of course would be good and sensitive. just dont go and mix a kilo of it
AN/NG is ammonia dynamite. which is good. if you dont mix it with the NG disolved in acetone u are a suicideal dude.
AN/organic solvents useualy work. some are like ANFO and some are more sensitive. of course there is alot of variation sience the amouunt of solvents.
ANAl. AN with aluminum powder is fairly sensitive and has a relitively high VoD. this is a good choice. it is especialy good when you add an orgainc
solvent or another sensitiser. the Al should be at least 200mesh. Mg, Zn and other metals used in pyrotecnics can be used with great sucess.
AN/nitrocellulose/Al is supos to be good. often casted by disolveing in acetone. more sensitive if microspheres are added.
AN/any liquid explosive will be good. and of course sensitive.
AN/TNT is called amatol. it is powerful but insensitive. the reason for it is because TNT has a negative oxygen balance and the AN works to correct
it. it is castable
AN mixtures with sulfur have been used but nobody realy does this. useualy in combonation with a metal powder.
i have heard of AN/wax mixture of somesort. quite strange if oyu aske me. but it was said ot be good. i forget what kind of wax stuff was used though.
hmm, i cant think of any more now. this may be a bit repetitive but i think you may apreciate it.
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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Ramiel
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My guess is that if a volatile hydrocarbon like desil can make it more sensitive, then. The wax mixture probably refers to some kind of wax like
Parrafin wax, or a wax that has a short chain (about 40 C and volatile). Still, it's an ester isn't it?
dunno, that's an interesting one.
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kingspaz
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i got another one!
AN/MNN (mononitronaphthalene)
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Ramiel
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Arresting TNT reaction
We all know one can nitrate toluene to get TNT (tri-nitro), but is it possible to arrest the reaction in some way as to only get MNT (mono-nitro)?
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madscientist
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Easily done. In fact, it's much easier to prepare mononitrotoluenes than trinitrotoluene. PHILOU Zrealone posted a good process for preparing
mononitrotoluenes, then successively dinitrotoluenes and trinitrotoluenes in this thread.
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=29
I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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mastermindg
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abbreviations
maddog (or anybody else that can answer) would you mind posting some of the names that you abbreviated? i would appreciate it.
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Madog
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ANNM-Amonium nitrate/nitromethane
ANFO-ammonium nitrate/fuel oil(diesel fuel)
MNT-mononitrotoluene
NG-nitroglycerin
MEKP-methly ethly ketone peroxide
AP-acetone peroxide
TNT-trinitrotoluene
Al is the chemical sign for aluminum
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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mastermindg
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thanks.
thanks. i knew some, but not all of them..a few like Al, NG, and NM were obvious but i didnt know what FO was. gracias.
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Madog
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ok, i figured you would know some but i put like all of them just to be safe
Most people outgrow their pyro tendencies, we are the ones who\'s tendencies outgrew us.
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Some much sensitiver HE than AN can sensitise AN!
NH4ClO4, NH2-NH3NO3, NH2-NH3ClO4, urea nitrate, urea perchlorate, methylamine nitrate, methylamine perchlorate, hexamine dinitrate, hexamine
diperchlorate, RDX, HMX, Tetryl,ethylenediamine dinitrate, ethylene diamine diperchlorate, ...
HE has to be homogeneously mixed with the AN to get a solid solution (ideally it must be melted together.
KMnO4 does too!Because partially you have some NH4MnO4 formation in situ (what is a primary)!
PH Z
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DBSP
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PHILOU do you know the ratio for AN sensitized with UN?
A quite sensitive ANFO mixture is easy to prepare. Go to the E&W-HE-cap sensitive mixtures in KIFE, look at one of my posts there.
It's basicly just to recrystalize AN from water by boiling the water off, when most water is gone and crystals start to fall out of the solution you
add a foaming agent such as: H2O2, NaNO3, baking soda etc. Then you quickly cool the AN that then solidifies at a much lower density that normal. It's
then dried in the oven untill completely dry and then (in my case) raps oil is added and it is given some time to soak, a day or two just to make
shure.
I detonated a 0.57kg charge of this with 50g ANNM but I think that you shuld be able to get it off with say 30g or so.
As I'm new to this perticular forum I don't know what rules there are about posting pics, but if anyone want's me to I can post(links) pics and audio
od the detonation.
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DBSP
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I extracted some interesting info from one of my posts on E&W..
This is really interesting to anyone who has problems finding NM or secondarys to boost ANFO.
"I then went to have a talk with my grandmother and I remembered the dancefloor wax thing and asked her if she knew about some similar wax, she rose
and started looking under the sink and pulled out a bottle of liquid floor wax. I ran home and pulled out a can of powdered AN(cold pack). Weighted it
and made some calculations and then added 2% wax(3g of fluid wax)(I added the double ammount since the wax was dissolved in some solvent that
evapourated quickly and left a quite small ammount of wax behind) which in turn was added to 5g acetone in order to make it more fluid and thus being
easier to mix with the AN. I stirred the AN for about ten minutes and then I added approx 1,5-2g Al(home milled!). I poured it into an emty coce can
and made a det out of ~4-5g HMTD only slightly pressed. I was going to a friend and thought I'd stop by at the lake and detonate it on my way, but
there where people there so I went to my friend right away instead. There I got a bit drunk and when my I called my mother and asked her to pic me up,
my brother came on the phone and asked if he shuld bring the charge with him, I told him to do that and we then stopped by at the lake we prepared the
charge. We(he) inserted the det and put everything into a plastic bag that was sealed and a roch was taped to the charge. I held the camera and the
lighter and he held the charge. When it was lit he threw it into the lake and said: FUCK it didn't sink. I told him to cover his ears and look away
from the charge and after 15s a slight crack was heard and I heard some water splattering on the surface. I then asked if he thought it was a complete
detonation(since I thought it sounded like a regular cap alone), he then gave me a funny look and said: it went off allright, we then ran away since
it was close to the willage where I live and it wasn't supposed to be heard at all(this was an hour after dark or so).
Today one of my brothers friends told him that he had heard "a fucking Bang" last night so it probably heard quite well.
I don't know if the charge detonated so easily because of the wax or the fact that there still was some acetone and some Al in it but it worked and it
worked well, this mix is something that I will definately do some real testing on. This is actually the first mix that meets my demands that I have
for a mix to be declared a "standard" mixture on my list of explosives that I use.
It's cap sensitive, chep as hell, easy to prepare and safe.
Does anyone have any idea of how long it can be stored?
As long as it doesn't start decomposing in storage it can be prepared/loaded and then put into storage in different weights, the mixture would most
likely settle and self compress during storage but that would easily be solved by shaking the charge before use.
http://w1.478.telia.com/~u47804009/E&W/160g_AN-wax-acetone_A...
I don't have any pics of the detonation since i forgot to set the flash to night-mode on the camera."
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NERV
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I know that mixing TNP with metals will form dangerous picrate salts, And I was wondering if it would be safe to mix it with AN. Would it make
sensitive picrate salts, or do nothing at all. Is it possible that it would just make Ammonium picrate and NO3?
(Sorry my chemistry is not very good at the moment as I have only been studying it for a month now).
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00Buckshot
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re-crystalization on AN
Could someone post what they think is the best way to purify AN. Could I just dissolve it in hot water and crash out the crystals? Which solvent would
be the best to precipitate the crystals. I used to purify my KN03 this way, would it work the same with AN.
Furthermore, do you think ANHMTD is "suicidal" as madscientist put it in regards to ANAP.
Thanks
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dynamite
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does any one know this materials detanation velosity hexamin+HClO4+xH2O
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DeusExMachina
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00Buckshot, if you are asking how to get the AN from fertilizer, just go to the gardening store and look at the ingredients of the fertilizer and buy
the pack with the lest ingredients that can dissolve in water. You want a pack like that because the AN can go into the water and with the stuff that
can't dissolve into the water, you skim off the top and you collect the ammonium nitrate.
I don't know if that's what you are asking for or not.
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kingspaz
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buckshot, i agree with madscientist. HMTD is known to be unstable if not washed properly. washing removed the acid residues. ammonium ions exist in
the following equilibrium:
NH4+ <=> NH3 + H+
therefore ammonum nitrate is slightly acidic and therefore would make HMTD less stable = BOOOOM
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PHILOU Zrealone
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Hexamine diperchlorate VOD > or = to 8km/s!
UN and AN:
NH2-CO-NH3NO3 --> 3/2N2 + CO2 + H2O + 3/2H2
NH4NO3 --> 2H2O + N2O
So
2NH2-CO-NH3NO3 +3NH4NO3 -> 6N2 +2CO2 + 11H2O
From this you see that you need 246g UN for 240g AN so roughly a 50/50 mix by weight!
PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)
"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
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