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Author: Subject: Det Cap Strategies
ManyInterests
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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 07:40


I did read it, but I did not have a metal plate like that. I don't think that test would work in a saw dust filled bucket. I will get a small sheet of metal and when I am able to find a properly secluded spot to test it outside I will do so.

Did you glue the detonator head into the plate to keep it in place, BTW?

Edit: The steel sheer, what kind was it? Weldable, galvanized?

[Edited on 4-1-2022 by ManyInterests]

[Edited on 4-1-2022 by ManyInterests]
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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 09:11


Classic construction steel, weldable, maybe galvanized with some color on surface. Shortly normal ordinary sheet 2 mm. For stick used paper tape 2 - 3 layer from both sides. Zero distance from sheet is important and perpedicularity. Maybe it will less loudnes than with two part of wood. And mainly it will credible - Clearly telling Good luck....:cool:

[Edited on 4-1-2022 by Laboratory of Liptakov]




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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 09:28


Ok I saw your video on youtube about 'The Cavity' (where you make a blasting cap out of a steel tube) and I saw the aliexpress link you gave. I wish I knew about it earlier! Those tubes would be perfect for am amateur blasting cap. More than a pen body is (albeit NHN goes DDT very easily even in a cardboard tube, which mean I believe the whole thing will detonate even if unconfined in wood).

I also found this bit of sheet metal on Aliexpress: https://bit.ly/3JKjxQi

I think the 2 x 100 x 100mm would be perfect. What I will do is clue the detonator from around the side (but not the bottom) to the sheet to hold it in place, and in order to stabilize it in my bucket. I will get another wooden block, stick the sheet to it, place it around the bottom of my bucket and fill the rest with sawdust to muffle the sound. This should allow an accurate test.

It will take a bit for me to get all the necessary stuff, but when I do and perform the test. I will post the results in this thread.
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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 12:44


OK. It doesn't matter what looks assemble. Detonator must be perpendicular to the plate. The irony is that I'm also looking for a 2 mm plate. I smashed everything to pieces....:cool:
Once upon I also started with plast cavities. But proffesional cavities are often from metals. Pressing on high density is much easier.




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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 17:35


Well given that I found those metal tubes on aliexpress I think that I will make caps from them in the future. Plastic pen bodies are good, but after getting some practice I can probably do them without necessarily being able to see what is inside...

But speaking of which. I did make a 3rd blasting cap and there is something up with the ETN. I am not sure what or why it happened, but there is some discoloration that just appeared.

The other cap I made with similar quantities of ETN/NHN does not have this discoloration. What could it be?

det.jpg - 3.6MB
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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 18:42


I got a feeling it may be hard to see results on a metal witness plate with the plastic body of the pen case in-between. If you have any heavy walled cans like for Freon or Fixa-Flat they work great. I have done lots of testing with them using High and low explosives in order to be able to identify a det vs a def.

Tape the cap to the side of the can. 1/2-1 gram of ETN should punch a hole right through and throw stuff out the other side. A deflagration will just dent the can.
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[*] posted on 4-1-2022 at 19:49


NHN has a tendency to go DDT with even the most minimal of confinement. It was noted to set off RDX even in a cardboard tube. Again I will need to test it to see if it'll make a nice hole in the witness plate or not. I might go scrounging around some junkyards or trashbins for something suitable to use. You mention a Freon or Fixa-Flat cans? I'll see if my local hardware stores have some recycling containers with those that I can maybe scrounge.

But I will need to do it in my bucket. This will have a different effect as it will mean it will add confinement more to the situation... or maybe I will just find that secluded spot and test it there.

That being said I will reiterate my original question... what is up with the ETN between the NHN and other ETN? I don't know why it got discolored like that. The epoxy clearly couldn't have touched it? It looks weird.
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[*] posted on 5-1-2022 at 12:38


Nothing is recognized from photo as change of color.



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[*] posted on 5-1-2022 at 13:59


The odd color! You could have acid left in your ETN reacting with the NHN??
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[*] posted on 5-1-2022 at 14:18


Ive used the cans both outside in the open and in a container similar to what you are describing and the results are pretty much the same.

I myself are pretty confident your caps are going DDT. Idk if you have seen the videos of Wesson, but when he tested his cardboard caps he had to remove the hot glue end in order for the witness plate to be damaged at all.

As far as the color who knows. I had some turn yellow on me just one day out of the blue, maybe Bi carb left in?
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[*] posted on 5-1-2022 at 19:03


Quote:
Nothing is recognized from photo as change of color.


There is a bit of light brown color in the ETN between the snow white ETN and the NHN.

Quote:
The odd color! You could have acid left in your ETN reacting with the NHN??


Quote:
As far as the color who knows. I had some turn yellow on me just one day out of the blue, maybe Bi carb left in?


I checked my ETN supply in the tupperware where I keep it. It is still quite snow white. I would be surprised if there was any acid left. I washed out the ETN from both of the batches I made (that I store together) very thoroughly and I did add bicarbonate into the water to neutralize any acid washed out, but there was none there. I also did add baking soda to the water that I dumped the solution into.

This was before I recrystalized them, too. Which I did for all my batches and I used large quantities of distilled water in both cases. I am pretty confident I got rid of all the acid. Of course it can't hurt to give them another wash, even just spraying them with bicarbonate water.

That being said, I kept the other two detonators I made and they did not develop that discoloration. My other cap containing the same amount of ETN and NHN has no discoloration. Maybe it was an issue with that one very specific blasting cap?

That being said, I am now glad I used transparent pen bodies for the detonator. Since there is no way I could have noticed if it was in a metal casing.
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[*] posted on 7-1-2022 at 03:05


Not only acids are responsible for the breakdown of ester compounds....bases do the same.



Exact science is a figment of imagination.......
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[*] posted on 7-1-2022 at 03:37


if you store you must add acid scavenger, I use .01% by weight of urea in my recrystallizing step (I precipitate directly out of the alcohol and do not use a second water step) to stabilize the higher density crystals for storage

But for water step add .3% urea by weight to coat crystals on drying to act as scavenger
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[*] posted on 7-1-2022 at 18:16


Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
if you store you must add acid scavenger, I use .01% by weight of urea in my recrystallizing step (I precipitate directly out of the alcohol and do not use a second water step) to stabilize the higher density crystals for storage

But for water step add .3% urea by weight to coat crystals on drying to act as scavenger


.01 percent of the ETN or the water and ETN weight??
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[*] posted on 7-1-2022 at 20:59


That's an interesting thing I will do for an ETN synthesis in the future.

I took another picture of my detonator. Is it just me, or is the brown part eating my ETN?

det2.jpg - 1.5MB
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[*] posted on 8-1-2022 at 05:11


Is it clear. NHN eating the ETN. Also ETN eating NHN....:D



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[*] posted on 22-2-2022 at 08:53


OK, so those detonators I mentioned? I set them off a few days ago. Their power was quite mediocre compared to the first one that I did (that completely annihilated that wooden block and sent the lid of my bucket flying). They made a pop, consistent with NHN, and a nice colored flash, but it was not what I was expecting.

The ETN completely turned this sawdust-brown color, I had washed my NHN with ethanol (95%) and water to clean it up and took a pH reading. The liquid was neutral, or mostly neutral. I didn't wash the ETN again. The ETN that I had kept seperate in a container was still snow white, but it seems like when I loaded it into the pen body there was something up with it that caused it to degrade. It could that there are acids or something that's left that makes it degrade when it touches the NHN (And starts a chain reaction that causes the whole thing to die eventually).

Or... it could be a reaction with the plastic? No, that can't be it. I kept the ETN in a plastic tupperware that I don't think was a different type of plastic than the Bic pen body.

At this point I suspect it may be something with the ETN synthesis that went slightly awry? When I get back to this, I will make it a point to take especial care to make sure that the ETN is pH neutral.

On a plus note, I am kinda glad that the detonator went off reliably after being in storage for more than a month. The other interesting is that the match that I used in it was completely intact (I burned it with a lighter after) and it was purely the nichrome wire that set off the charge.
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[*] posted on 22-2-2022 at 16:47


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Quote: Originally posted by XeonTheMGPony  
if you store you must add acid scavenger, I use .01% by weight of urea in my recrystallizing step (I precipitate directly out of the alcohol and do not use a second water step) to stabilize the higher density crystals for storage

But for water step add .3% urea by weight to coat crystals on drying to act as scavenger


.01 percent of the ETN or the water and ETN weight??


of the ETN.
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[*] posted on 22-2-2022 at 18:22


I think LL just gave you the answer in another thread. It boggles my mind people still make NHN, lead azide and SADS after his contributions. His work mimics the work forever hidden by nuclear powers to produce insensitive detonators.
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[*] posted on 22-2-2022 at 19:57


Quote:
if you store you must add acid scavenger, I use .01% by weight of urea in my recrystallizing step (I precipitate directly out of the alcohol and do not use a second water step) to stabilize the higher density crystals for storage

But for water step add .3% urea by weight to coat crystals on drying to act as scavenger


OK so let me see if I understand you correctly. After the nitration is complete, I prepare the beaker/jar of distilled water with bicarbonate and urea added in, then pour the nitrating mixture inside and filter as normal? And after drying, after dissolving all the ETN in warm acetone, I also add a touch of urea to that as well?

I didn't make large batches of ETN. so adding 0.01% and 0.3% by weight seems really minuscule. Maybe next time I'll make one somewhat large batch (like 30 grams?) to make the urea addition easier to weigh?


Quote:
I think LL just gave you the answer in another thread. It boggles my mind people still make NHN, lead azide and SADS after his contributions. His work mimics the work forever hidden by nuclear powers to produce insensitive detonators.


NHN is still a fairly new thing when it comes to amateur chemists. It's also the first of the fairly 'safe' primaries out there.

I only made one NHN synthesis (out of three. My other two failed due to the fact that my attempts at freebasing hydrazine were unsuccessful because my hydrazine sulfate synthesis was unsuccessful). I do want to try to make a few more once I get back into the amateur chemistry thing. It isn't because I am so convinced of the superiority of NHN that I think it is better, but simply because I want to get more experience in making it. It's still a very good primary and as long as it doesn't degrade when added with an ETN booster it should set off any explosive charge. My first blasting cap had no degradation and it was unexpectedly powerful. The degraded ones were quite weak.

I absolutely will make CHP and even try to see if I can have a go at making LL8. I said it in another thread.

However I do want to figure out what I did wrong here and try to rectify it. That's part of the challenge of this hobby.
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[*] posted on 23-2-2022 at 01:22


I basically agree. Each researcher's path is lined with a series of failures. A new researcher will gain a complete overview of energetic materials (and experience) only after several years of study. And also after hundreds of attempts. Which are often unsuccessful....:cool:



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[*] posted on 23-2-2022 at 15:10


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
I basically agree. Each researcher's path is lined with a series of failures. A new researcher will gain a complete overview of energetic materials (and experience) only after several years of study. And also after hundreds of attempts. Which are often unsuccessful....:cool:


Yes. Making NHN was a psychological hurdle that I just wanted to get over. When I did successfully synthesize it (you remember!) I was feeling a tremendous amount of elation and joy. Of course the synthesis could have been much better, as despite adding dextrin it was chunky and needed grinding. I also had some issues with filtration that made washing difficult, so I didn't give it an ethanol or water wash.

Making ETN seemed successful until I realized the degradation issue when using it in a blasting cap. I think it is the ETN more than the NHN (because I did wash the NHN later, but not the ETN). I was thinking of paper and how acid-free paper was made because when wood pulp was used to make paper much of the acid remained, and it caused the paper to degrade quite quickly.

When I do it next, I will use a much larger jug with a vast excess of water AND sodium carbonate + urea in the mix, then rewash everything afterward before recrystalization (with also a dab of carbonate and urea). It'll be a long process, but if it clears up the issue and I can have a cap that does not degrade immediately after making then I would call that a success.


Edit: Also I will be looking into getting lab grade ammonia, a cup-type crucible, and a heat gun. I will need it to make CHP, which I did promise MineMan I will make. Who knows? Maybe I will say to myself that I should have went with CHP instead of NHN! Also I will be getting lithium chloride to make lithium perchlorate for that Lithex that you made (I download most of your videos, BTW).

[Edited on 23-2-2022 by ManyInterests]
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[*] posted on 23-2-2022 at 15:23


I never use carbonate.

I just wash the crude till no detectable acid in it, then dry, dissolve in methanol, add .3% urea, then crash in a water .01% urea mixture, filter and dry
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[*] posted on 23-2-2022 at 16:19


ManyInterests:
That's nice news. CHP works as a mono material. The outlet pressure is lower than ETN, but CHP is strong enough to initiate anything. This allows you to get rid of compatibility problems with 2 or more substances in one cavity. I recommend CHP first. When wet, it has a beautiful blue, monochromatic color. And he's non hygroscopic. Every success in the field of energetic materials causes a strong emotional experience. As a bonus, it's knowledge of precise procedures that few people master.
Which is a big advantage in case of war...:cool:




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[*] posted on 23-2-2022 at 17:10


Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
ManyInterests:
That's nice news. CHP works as a mono material. The outlet pressure is lower than ETN, but CHP is strong enough to initiate anything. This allows you to get rid of compatibility problems with 2 or more substances in one cavity. I recommend CHP first. When wet, it has a beautiful blue, monochromatic color. And he's non hygroscopic. Every success in the field of energetic materials causes a strong emotional experience. As a bonus, it's knowledge of precise procedures that few people master.
Which is a big advantage in case of war...:cool:


Yes, but in the case of war we are talking about IR drones that can track you and tanks with 1meter of armor. War is no longer a place for amateurs. The Taliban only succeeded because we let them, petty politics you might.
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