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Author: Subject: ETN(X) with NHN Plastic
Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 08:44


Wessonsmith... do you know what four hand sign language is? Google it. You would need it if you have a one time accident, but wouldn't be able to do it because you would lack the hands to do so. You would lose your hands because of the explosion, you would lose your eyes because of your own bones forming shrapnel. I don't think I have to explain the deafness part.

Yamoto71 got away, keeping his eyes, because he was working in a fume hood.

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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 08:55


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Wessonsmith... do you know what four hand sign language is? Google it. You would need it if you have a one time accident, but wouldn't be able to do it because you would lack the hands to do so. You would lose your hands because of the explosion, you would lose your eyes because of your own bones forming shrapnel. I don't think I have to explain the deafness part.

Yamoto71 got away, keeping his eyes, because he was working in a fume hood.



I get it. Hydrazine Monohydratye will kill me if I breathe it in. Fuming Nitric Acid will blind me if I get it in my eyes. I can also get killed in a car accident, get a girl pregnant without a rubber, and even with rubber if it's defective. I get the risks involved with doing all those things and I take all necessary and practical precautions.

The guaranteed way to avoid any problems is to lock yourself indoors and do none of those things. But since I like having sex with women, and blowing stuff up, I take reasonable precautions.

Thought I would inject a bit levity into this discussion.
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 08:58


Anything you mention is a lot better than being a blind, deaf person without hands ;) Even the car accident.

;) you just made my point. Thank you.

I will leave this discussion to you and Rosco! Have a nice time and don't blow up your neighbors.

[Edited on 27-2-2020 by Tsjerk]
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 09:05


Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Anything you mention is a lot better than being a blind, deaf person without hands ;) Even the car accident.

;) you just made my point. Thank you.

I will leave this discussion to you and Rosco! Have a nice time and don't blow up your neighbors.

[Edited on 27-2-2020 by Tsjerk]


Have a nice day. Personally I am done with this current thread.
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 09:09


Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  
Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
There is still No Way I would choose as part of a "hobby pursuit" to manually operate a mixer standing beside it observing it and especially not using a blender on a plastic composite containing ETN or PETN, but would do that remotely and use solid addition funnel screws also operated remotely, and then if Murphy's Law chooses today to apply, it won't be any huge consequential issue on that operation. Even in a commercial production of such compositions, extruders and mixers are operated remotely and there is a reason for that precaution. I have never manually done any milling operations on any energetic materials or mixtures and I am never going to start. Even solvent aided or melt systems I have limited to under 4 gram samples and then using no glass or metal handling the sample.

Rolling the dice on manually formulating, mixing these compositions is not a gambit I am going to be making, not even with RDX that is "safer" still in terms of the risk. In some kind of war environment being pressed to the ghetto of lower valuation of life and limb it would be a different scenario, but as a risk taking not necessary for a peace time hobby, I'll pass on this manual mixer operation.

Oh and BTW I had already become familiar with dynamite and its inventor and dynmaite manufacture in my studies 60 years ago, along with noting the loss of life in the mans immediate family of his next of kin killed in the family business by being blown to atoms.



[Edited on 2/27/2020 by Rosco Bodine]


First, Nobel's brother died from a nitroglycerin accident, a bottle full of nitro fell on the floor beside him. He didn't die from a Dynamite manufacture process.

You are entitled to have your fears and OPINIONS about things, that's perfectly fine. What I object to is your hostel and combative approach to making your point. For the first few interactions with me on this subject, you didn't provide empirical evidence or make an OBJECTIVE argument. You instead hurled incoherent rambling insults, and made UNSUBSTAINATED and INCORRECT assertions about OBJECTIVE FACTS! ETN is nowhere near as sensitive to Nitroglycerin, yet you stated it as FACT! Then you used that incorrect fact to insult and demean.

I think you need to spend some time reflecting on why you are so angry and determined to demean others on a public board when instead you should be sharing IDEAS and concerns in an objective and sincere way.



Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Wessonsmith apperantly already went down from remote controlling melting his primary explosives to using blenders and then back up to using bread mixing machines... My God, you use bread quantity amounts of primary explosives? In a mechanical machine?

Do you have neighbors?


I think you guys need to get a grip on the reality of what I am doing. I am SLOWLY mixing a relatively safe to handle energetic(s) 1/5 at a time, into an INERT binder, and when mixed into the said binder, a detonator with 400mg of pressed powdered ETN won't set off. The mixing blade doesn't touch the side or bottom of the bowl. The bottom of the bowl has been pre-coated with the inert Lithium Grease binder futher reducing the possibility of friction.

Please refrain from hyperbole and personal biases. The sensitivity issue you bring up is the reason why after spending months on this board I decided to make NHN. An energetic that is 80x less sensitive to friction than Lead Azide. Yet on this very board, many members think that HMTD, TATP, Lead Azide, etc are somehow acceptable primaries to make and use.

What I have found in the relatively short time I have spent on this board is that there a VERY few members who do their OWN research. Instead, there seems to be a lot of regurgitation of misinformation at the best to flat out FALSE facts, at worst.

When I first came to this board I got a lot of grief for suggesting that people switch to NHN. I was meet with a lot of hostility because I factually pointed out how dangerous and sensitive primaries like Lead Azide were, I guess I was bucking the status quo and it wasn't liked.

As I stated in my ealier post, I have no problem with being called out or CORRECTED as long as it is respectful and is based on FACT! Passing off biases and personal beliefs as a basis for an attack isn't helpful to the discourse of the community.



Discourse on this board ....riiiight ....a little depth could help that.

Yeah, Choice is the ultimate freedom. So you go ahead with your own RANT starting with INCORRECT and/or UNSUBSTANTIATED inventor's euphoria "stability" arguments and proceeding with your own confirmation bias blindered brand of "objectivity" about the "safety" of what you are doing, or the illusion of safety, and you go right ahead and do what you think is smart.

I never got down to the bean counting of joules or newtons on measurements in my generalization comparison of ETN and nitroglycerin which is still valid.

And your imprecise and incorrect reference to a "blender" is a HUGE straw man for this expanded ARGUMENT to the commercial production that does use remotely controlled and barricaded facilities .....FOR GOOD REASONS....peace of mind absolutely counting as a good reason, even if for alleviation of unreasoning fears.

I should now descend into chanting mantras for banishment of all my death fears. :D I'll get back to you when I'm all better. :P

In U2U it was clear from you it was like you were asking, and who are you to know anything at all about ETN ....and so I told you, so far as I can tell I am the "who" that dredged up the ETN obscurity from one post read in an old news group alt eng expl and first posted about ETN on another board that was the E&W forum where I gave the patent and literature references and then Axt posted the first synthesis there at E&W and later here on this board. So I personally have observed the stability under more years long storage than you have done, and I know something about that stability to speak with authority in answer to your general SMART ASS "what do you know" kind of question....yet you blow right past that and "move on" making misleading "safety" claims that are highly RELATIVE just like your dubious ETN stability claims.

Who needs a stabilizer for ETN ? What a bizarre idea !!!

And now you are going to school me in good manners and mental attitude and WARP this into some Freudian realm of psychoanalysis. Well go get a mirror for self reflection and look for the sticky about an ETN misadventure at the top of this forum section for edification about "relative safety".

The generalization that ETN is generally like solid nitroglycerin is a fair generalization, and so is the generalization I made about stability.

The numbers can tell part of the story. And the numbers are modeling studies about an observed AND derivative theoretical and predicted reality calculated to entirely govern that universe where ultimately theory may or may not hold true in practice, that is the bane of every bean counting statistician, when SHIT happens not according to the "rules" that theory supplied. The anomaly lurks, and it is invisible in the statistics until it has made a statistic of you.

[Edited on 2/27/2020 by Rosco Bodine]
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wessonsmith
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 09:24


Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  
Quote: Originally posted by Rosco Bodine  
There is still No Way I would choose as part of a "hobby pursuit" to manually operate a mixer standing beside it observing it and especially not using a blender on a plastic composite containing ETN or PETN, but would do that remotely and use solid addition funnel screws also operated remotely, and then if Murphy's Law chooses today to apply, it won't be any huge consequential issue on that operation. Even in a commercial production of such compositions, extruders and mixers are operated remotely and there is a reason for that precaution. I have never manually done any milling operations on any energetic materials or mixtures and I am never going to start. Even solvent aided or melt systems I have limited to under 4 gram samples and then using no glass or metal handling the sample.

Rolling the dice on manually formulating, mixing these compositions is not a gambit I am going to be making, not even with RDX that is "safer" still in terms of the risk. In some kind of war environment being pressed to the ghetto of lower valuation of life and limb it would be a different scenario, but as a risk taking not necessary for a peace time hobby, I'll pass on this manual mixer operation.

Oh and BTW I had already become familiar with dynamite and its inventor and dynmaite manufacture in my studies 60 years ago, along with noting the loss of life in the mans immediate family of his next of kin killed in the family business by being blown to atoms.



[Edited on 2/27/2020 by Rosco Bodine]


First, Nobel's brother died from a nitroglycerin accident, a bottle full of nitro fell on the floor beside him. He didn't die from a Dynamite manufacture process.

You are entitled to have your fears and OPINIONS about things, that's perfectly fine. What I object to is your hostel and combative approach to making your point. For the first few interactions with me on this subject, you didn't provide empirical evidence or make an OBJECTIVE argument. You instead hurled incoherent rambling insults, and made UNSUBSTAINATED and INCORRECT assertions about OBJECTIVE FACTS! ETN is nowhere near as sensitive to Nitroglycerin, yet you stated it as FACT! Then you used that incorrect fact to insult and demean.

I think you need to spend some time reflecting on why you are so angry and determined to demean others on a public board when instead you should be sharing IDEAS and concerns in an objective and sincere way.



Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  
Quote: Originally posted by Tsjerk  
Wessonsmith apperantly already went down from remote controlling melting his primary explosives to using blenders and then back up to using bread mixing machines... My God, you use bread quantity amounts of primary explosives? In a mechanical machine?

Do you have neighbors?


I think you guys need to get a grip on the reality of what I am doing. I am SLOWLY mixing a relatively safe to handle energetic(s) 1/5 at a time, into an INERT binder, and when mixed into the said binder, a detonator with 400mg of pressed powdered ETN won't set off. The mixing blade doesn't touch the side or bottom of the bowl. The bottom of the bowl has been pre-coated with the inert Lithium Grease binder futher reducing the possibility of friction.

Please refrain from hyperbole and personal biases. The sensitivity issue you bring up is the reason why after spending months on this board I decided to make NHN. An energetic that is 80x less sensitive to friction than Lead Azide. Yet on this very board, many members think that HMTD, TATP, Lead Azide, etc are somehow acceptable primaries to make and use.

What I have found in the relatively short time I have spent on this board is that there a VERY few members who do their OWN research. Instead, there seems to be a lot of regurgitation of misinformation at the best to flat out FALSE facts, at worst.

When I first came to this board I got a lot of grief for suggesting that people switch to NHN. I was meet with a lot of hostility because I factually pointed out how dangerous and sensitive primaries like Lead Azide were, I guess I was bucking the status quo and it wasn't liked.

As I stated in my ealier post, I have no problem with being called out or CORRECTED as long as it is respectful and is based on FACT! Passing off biases and personal beliefs as a basis for an attack isn't helpful to the discourse of the community.



Discourse on this board ....riiiight ....a little depth could help that.

Yeah, Choice is the ultimate freedom. So you go ahead with your own RANT starting with INCORRECT and/or UNSUBSTANTIATED inventor's euphoria "stability" arguments and proceeding with your own confirmation bias blindered brand of "objectivity" about the "safety" of what you are doing, or the illusion of safety, and you go right ahead and do what you think is smart.

I never got down to the bean counting of joules or newtons on measurements in my generalization comparison of ETN and nitroglycerin which is still valid.

And your imprecise and incorrect reference to a "blender" is a HUGE straw man for this expanded ARGUMENT to the commercial production that does use remotely controlled and barricaded facilities .....FOR GOOD REASONS....peace of mind absolutely counting as a good reason, even if for alleviation of unreasoning fears.

I should now descend into chanting mantras for banishment of all my death fears. :D I'll get back to you when I'm all better. :P

In U2U it was clear from you it was like you were asking, and who are you to know anything at all about ETN ....and so I told you, so far as I can tell I am the "who" that dredged up the ETN obscurity from one post read in an old news group alt eng expl and first posted about ETN on another board that was the E&W forum where I gave the patent and literature references and then Axt posted the first synthesis there at E&W and later here on this board. So I personally have observed the stability under more years long storage than you have done, and I know something about that stability to speak with authority in answer to your general SMART ASS "what do you know" kind of question....yet you blow right past that and "move on" making misleading "safety" claims that are highly RELATIVE just like your dubious ETN stability claims.

Who needs a stabilizer for ETN ? What a bizarre idea !!!

And now you are going to school me in good manners and mental attitude and WARP this into some Freudian realm of psychoanalysis. Well go get a mirror for self reflection and look for the sticky about an ETN misadventure at the top of this forum section for edification about "relative safety".

The generalization that ETN is generally like solid nitroglycerin is a fair generalization, and so is the generalization I made about stability.

The numbers can tell part of the story. And the numbers are modeling studies about an observed AND derivative theoretical and predicted reality calculated to entirely govern that universe where ultimately theory may or may not hold true in practice, that is the bane of every bean counting statistician, when SHIT happens not according to the "rules" that theory supplied. The anomaly lurks, and it is invisible in the statistics until it has made a statistic of you.

[Edited on 2/27/2020 by Rosco Bodine]


Sorry not going to read your post.

As I said to TsJerk, have a nice day. Personally I am done with this current thread.
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 09:43


Yeah...why ACTUALLY consider anything at all I might have to say, when patronizing ageism has already in advance predisposed you to ignore any more ancient (and verifiable) knowledge that may be offered (and rejected)even when you privately ask
and get an answer that can't pass through the wall that is your bias. You suffer from overconfidence in "evidence based science" that is a mile wide and an inch deep.
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Tsjerk
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 09:50


Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  
As I said to TsJerk, have a nice day.


"TsJerk" :) I couldn't not respond to that HAHA. Hilarious.

[Edited on 27-2-2020 by Tsjerk]
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Rosco Bodine
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[*] posted on 27-2-2020 at 10:33


Have a clam happy day,

A beautiful woman told me I did not need to use a rubber,
so I have no worries it may burst or leak ....but she lied ! :P



Birth of Venus excerpt Boticelli.png - 330kB


Daddy.png - 1.5MB

For many of us it happens that our very existence in this world is an ANOMALY that did not follow the prediction of a most carefully considered "mathematical model" ......and likewise it does also occur that a departure from this life as well may be the anomaly.

But there are many who consider themselves "great thinkers" on which the point of this subtle FACT is lost, because they failed to ever have the DEPTH of DISCERNING to understand the SUBTLE difference between what is ACTUAL REALITY and what is only a "mathematical model".





The Wizard and The Wizards Apprentice.bmp - 558kB

[Edited on 2/28/2020 by Rosco Bodine]
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[*] posted on 7-3-2020 at 17:29


Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  
Please watch the video for the details. I will be doing an update to the cardboard detonator. I have made it, so heating is no longer required.

I would like to point out that in the production of this plastic, I am using "wetted" energetics. This has two advantages. It dramatically reduces the sensitivity of the energetics used, and it allows the NHN to more evenly be distributed throughout the composition, creating a very uniform and dense plastic.

https://youtu.be/UqEaiZKVg2c

[Edited on 11-2-2020 by wessonsmith]


Could you reupload the video please? I always try to download your videos but it's been a while.
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XeonTheMGPony
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[*] posted on 9-3-2020 at 17:18


Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  

When I first came to this board I got a lot of grief for suggesting that people switch to NHN. I was meet with a lot of hostility because I factually pointed out how dangerous and sensitive primaries like Lead Azide were, I guess I was bucking the status quo and it wasn't liked.


No, you where called out for the hysterical nature of it. No such thing as a dangerous substance, only dangerous people, sensitive fine, but when handled competently (Just like you using a mechanical blender) Is just as safe as any other substance (They are being like you with conventional primaries, hysterical over some thing perfectly safe when handled properly)


Quote: Originally posted by wessonsmith  

As I stated in my ealier post, I have no problem with being called out or CORRECTED as long as it is respectful and is based on FACT! Passing off biases and personal beliefs as a basis for an attack isn't helpful to the discourse of the community.


Yes we saw how well that worked out, and you still don't understand the principle I was trying convey, then begging fate by rapping your plastic against a hard surface, like I said no such thing as a dangerous compound, only dangerous people.

I wouldn't even do that with C4 and yes, I know how insensitive it is!

When you have the false belief it is safe just because it is insensitive is the time you discover that it decided to play and become unusually sensitive!

With that said, you do you, I will stick with industry / Military standard systems.

and to others yes his method of using a roller style bread mixer is just a scaled down industry method, perfectly fine and dandy.

So long as he's sealed it so no dusts can get inside it.
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[*] posted on 19-4-2020 at 12:23


Has anyone find a source of Nickle Nitrate? I am struggling
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