Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
Grade 10 Highschool Science
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g-biRwAVTV8
IT HURTS!, It hurts so much!
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
Fulmen
International Hazard
Posts: 1693
Registered: 24-9-2005
Member Is Offline
Mood: Bored
|
|
Could you perhaps explain exactly what the video claims, and why it "hurts"? Last time I checked this isn't the f'ing youtube commentary section.
We're not banging rocks together here. We know how to put a man back together.
|
|
|
Sigmatropic
Hazard to Others
Posts: 307
Registered: 29-1-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Oversimplification at its finest. It's the equivalence of quantification to the point of failed utility. Yes, it is chemistry, yes it is, at least
somewhere, correct. but it does not serve any purpose whatsoever.
|
|
|
mackolol
Hazard to Others
Posts: 458
Registered: 26-10-2017
Member Is Offline
Mood: Funky
|
|
Maybe if someone is not good at chemistry in highschool and it isn't his main subject it is easier to remember for him this way... I don't see any
purpose in this topic.
[Edited on 28-5-2020 by mackolol]
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6218
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
It wasn't dreadful. But it was really little more than the animation of a dictionary definition. I doubt anyone would be able to sensibly
extrapolate from the generalisaton given to any specific examples. The presenter certainly couldn't: for the double displacement reaction both
products were soluble and so it is a stretch to say that the reaction had actually occurred.
For the sake of a 14 year old who needs to somehow regurgitate some isolated information to "pass" (for some reason... Why do we do this in our
education system?) then maybe it is alright.
To illustrate a bit of terminology that somehow a student had become fuzzy on and thereby equip them to progress, again ok at least in the hands of a
competent teacher.
As a scientific explanation... It's a bit like calling the three little pigs literature: formative, maybe. Illustrative, perhaps. Meaningful, Nup!
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
Exactly, j_sum1. For me, it was doubly tragic because of the school system's pathetic attempt at relevance to today's youth. A 90s sitcom, really?
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6218
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
A 1960s sitcom.
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
1960s?
My bad, never seen, nor do I care to.
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Ouch. You're right, that was painful. Even ignoring the references to the 1960s, and the slow monotonous worse-than-Kirk manner of
speaking........
They decided that magnesium chloride was Mg(Cl)2 and that copper nitrate was CuNO3.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Ubya
International Hazard
Posts: 1232
Registered: 23-11-2017
Location: Rome-Italy
Member Is Offline
Mood: I'm a maddo scientisto!!!
|
|
ignoring the wrong chemical formulas and the cringy aspect of using the fintstones, i can see why he did it. i gave private chemistry lesson to a guy
a few times, he is honestly dumb as a rock, i really had to use my imagination to explain to him some basic chemistry concepts in a form
understandable by him. the dumber the kid, the crazier the example.
[Edited on 31-5-2020 by Ubya]
---------------------------------------------------------------------
feel free to correct my grammar, or any mistakes i make
---------------------------------------------------------------------
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
@DraconicAcid, you're right, the speaker sounds like he's decoding a stack of punchcards. My guess is that this video was produced in some content
mill, and even the speaker new how cringy it was.
Also, in the same lesson, I was told that an acid is "A covalent compound that donates hydrogen ions when placed in water", and (even worse) "A base
is an ionic compound which donates hydroxide ions when placed in water."
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42  | @DraconicAcid, you're right, the speaker sounds like he's decoding a stack of punchcards. My guess is that this video was produced in some content
mill, and even the speaker new how cringy it was.
Also, in the same lesson, I was told that an acid is "A covalent compound that donates hydrogen ions when placed in water", and (even worse) "A base
is an ionic compound which donates hydroxide ions when placed in water." |
Well, that's the Arrhenius definition, which grade 10 insists is the only definition. I have to break my first-year students of the habit of saying
that "and acid and a base react to give a salt and a water", ignoring the possibility of ammonia or carbonate acting as a base. Are insisting that
aqueous ammonia is actually "ammonium hydroxide" (and it's the hydroxide that acts as a base).
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
I know that this is the standard grade 10 definition, but as someone who educated myself about Lewis acids and bases over lunch during grade 9
science, it is still quite painful.
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
j_sum1
Administrator
Posts: 6218
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline
Mood: Organised
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42 | | I know that this is the standard grade 10 definition, but as someone who educated myself about Lewis acids and bases over lunch during grade 9
science, it is still quite painful. |
Good for you.
In defense of Arrhenius theory, I think it provides a practical foundation. It makes a difference when students see Ca(OH)2 and immediately recognise
it as basic.
Most high school syllabuses limit to aqueous solutions for acid-base work and so the simplistic classification of, "acids have H+ and bases have OH-
in solution" is practical and accurate enough. A proper understanding of bronsted-lowry theory requires a foundation of equilibrium which is outside
the scope of middle school curricula. I have no bones about students operating under Arrhenius theory and then blowing it out of the water with
substances like NH3 and FeCl3. That is what happened historically.
Lewis theory is really not necessary until students start learning organic chemistry and reaction mechanisms.
The fact that the theories build on one another sequentially rather than contradict one another helps to lead students incrementally to a place of
conceptual understanding.
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
Arrhenius is better than nothing, but Bronsted-Lowry is far more useful, until we get to the point where we actually need Lewis.
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
@j_sum1, I agree with everything you said, except for one thing. You said that lewis acids and bases are not required until organic chemistry and
reaction mechanisms. Perhaps they are not strictly "Required" until then, but the reason I originally sought to understand them was so I could
understand how solutions of metal salts could be acidic.
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
Also, the part that really annoyed me about the lesson was where it stated that acids are "Covalent compounds" and bases are "Ionic compounds." Does
anyone know where this particular idea comes from?
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
DraconicAcid
International Hazard
Posts: 4278
Registered: 1-2-2013
Location: The tiniest college campus ever....
Member Is Offline
Mood: Semi-victorious.
|
|
| Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42 | | Also, the part that really annoyed me about the lesson was where it stated that acids are "Covalent compounds" and bases are "Ionic compounds." Does
anyone know where this particular idea comes from? |
Acids are covalent- H+ is too small to exist as an ion without a bond. If you accept Arrhenius's idea that only hydroxides are bases, then bases are
ionic hydroxides or ionic oxides (I used to work with a guy who insisted on calling ionic oxides "basic anhydrides"- they weren't really bases because
they weren't hydroxides).
Please remember: "Filtrate" is not a verb.
Write up your lab reports the way your instructor wants them, not the way your ex-instructor wants them.
|
|
|
Chemorg42
Hazard to Others
Posts: 103
Registered: 12-11-2019
Member Is Offline
Mood: Concentrated
|
|
Oh, that makes sense, thanks.
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
|
|
|
wg48temp9
National Hazard
Posts: 761
Registered: 30-12-2018
Location: not so United Kingdom
Member Is Offline
|
|
A snip from the video:
I find it hard to believe that normal (undamaged brains) children after 9+ years of education are taught chemistry that way. Just a year or two
before they go to university !!!
I am wg48 but not on my usual pc hence the temp handle.
Thank goodness for Fleming and the fungi.
Old codger' lives matters, wear a mask and help save them.
Be aware of demagoguery, keep your frontal lobes fully engaged.
I don't know who invented mRNA vaccines but they should get a fancy medal and I hope they made a shed load of money from it.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
