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Syn the Sizer
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H2O2 vs Acids, injuries and pain
Hell All,
As many of us know, with the whole COVID situation and the social distancing school lab classes have been discontinued. I am literally the only person
in my class who is doing lab work outside of school, so I am staying in practice. I am a very big stickler for safety, both in the workplace/school as
well as home. Employers love me employees hate me lol.
Now to get to my point. I have dealt with concentrated HCl and 98% H2SO4 both ungloved. In school we are taught to deal with
H2SO4 ONLY while wearing kitchen gloves but they never stress the dangers of concentrated H2O2.
I do understand and realize the dangers of HCL and H2SO4, they are no joke. But in my home lab I will handle
H2SO4 bottles with no gloves, even get it on my skin and finish my task quickly and wash with a bicarb solution I have never had
burns ever.
I never deal with 29% H2O2 without gloves ever and if I get H2O2 on my my skin I instantly drop what I am
doing and run to the sink, which we all know really doesn't do much, it burns and itches like hell and if the burns are bad enough your sensitivity on
the burns will take a few days to recover. I have left 31.45% HCl on my skin for over 5 min and still just a minor irritation and rash.
I feel Chemistry courses need to stress the dangers of H2O2 more, they scare students with acids but don't stress the dangers of
H2O2. In my first year we didn't even learn about H2O2 and HCl producing Cl2.
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MadHatter
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Hydrogen Peroxide
This compound comes in many concentrations
depending on the application. Like acids, the
higher the concentration the more dangerous.
At 90% hydrogen peroxide can be downright
explosive. This concentration is the fuel used
in some rocket cars and from what I've
witnessed the drivers of these vehicles can
only use full thrust for perhaps 100 yards or a
little bit more in a quarter mile. The rocket
motor(back in the 1980s) produced about
5000 LBS of thrust.
From opening of NCIS New Orleans - It goes a BOOM ! BOOM ! BOOM ! MUHAHAHAHAHAHAHA !
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Syn the Sizer
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Exactly, I have met people afraid of touching a bottle of muriatic acid because it has "acid" in the name yet laugh at me because I am wearing gloves
to handle peroxide. I just feel the risks have been downplayed for years, even at 3% concentration is can burn and oxidize fires. The same people have
handled 30% acetic acid with bare hands because it is labelled as "30% vinegar".
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Morgan
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My dentist suggested diluting 3% H2O2 with water 50/50 as a mouthwash. I felt like I had throat cancer from the effect. Never again.
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karlos³
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Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  | | Exactly, I have met people afraid of touching a bottle of muriatic acid because it has "acid" in the name yet laugh at me because I am wearing gloves
to handle peroxide. I just feel the risks have been downplayed for years, even at 3% concentration is can burn and oxidize fires. The same people have
handled 30% acetic acid with bare hands because it is labelled as "30% vinegar". |
Meh, some people have to experience that all to gain respect.
If its bleached fingers from H2O2, yellow fingers from HNO3, or really hurt fingers from either H2SO4 or NaOH, some people only learn from
experience(hopefully).
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Syn the Sizer
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I have gotten more pain from 3 seconds of 29% H2O2 than ~30 seconds of H2SO4. As long as you wash with a
bicarb solution there is minimal damage. The issue with H2O2 is how do you neutralize it, your skins burns and itches until the
oxidization stops. Even after that it lasts a few days if severe enough.
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karlos³
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Yeah I was surprised the first times I worked with concentrated H2O2 at home, since I never experienced that at work.
Its ok though, I never found it hurts much, I guess I was lucky so far.
But acids, oh man, I've gotten once or thrice conc. H2SO4 in cuts at the hands.... never hydrogen peroxide though(luckily).
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Chemorg42
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| Quote: Originally posted by Morgan | | My dentist suggested diluting 3% H2O2 with water 50/50 as a mouthwash. I felt like I had throat cancer from the effect. Never again.
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My grandfather swallows several drops of 30% H2O2 per day to "Clear his system." Normally, I think that if people want to
indulge in pseudoscientific home remedy drivel, then nothing I say is likely to stop them, but seriously, 30% hydrogen peroxide?!, That just can't be
good for a person (not to mention burn like heck.)
Has anyone else come across this self destructive "Health" practice?
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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karlos³
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Does he swallow that pure? 
Thats heavy stuff!
Ouch!
In my imagination he has a white or white spotted tongue 
Lately I used diluted DMSO for back pain though... I am not as sceptical against home remedy for chemicals as I was earlier, because after 2 weeks of
suffering I was almost pain free
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Syn the Sizer
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42 |
My grandfather swallows several drops of 30% H2O2 per day to "Clear his system." Normally, I think that if people want to
indulge in pseudoscientific home remedy drivel, then nothing I say is likely to stop them, but seriously, 30% hydrogen peroxide?!, That just can't be
good for a person (not to mention burn like heck.)
Has anyone else come across this self destructive "Health" practice? |
I have heard it is sold in some health food stores here for that purpose. Though I get mine from a garden shop.
| Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ | Yeah I was surprised the first times I worked with concentrated H2O2 at home, since I never experienced that at work.
Its ok though, I never found it hurts much, I guess I was lucky so far.
But acids, oh man, I've gotten once or thrice conc. H2SO4 in cuts at the hands.... never hydrogen peroxide though(luckily).
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Ouch, I bet the H2SO4 in a cut would burn like hell.
[Edited on 9-6-2020 by Syn the Sizer]
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Bedlasky
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I use gloves only in special cases. When I work with acids, bases, H2O2, I always work with it without gloves and I am fine. Sometimes drop of H2O2
splits on my fingers, it itches for short time, but nothing serious, just little bit uncomfortable.
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Belowzero
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I've known experienced chemists who do not wear gloves in most cases, the argument was that it is hard to distingish between sweat inside a glove and
potential leakage of the glove.
The latter would be worse since it would cause prolonged exposure without being aware of it.
For most acids/bases or solvents I don't use gloves, the exception would be toxic or carcinogenic substances.
I do however always have dilute acid and a dilute base solution closeby in case I really make a mess.
Being aware of what substance you are about to handle makes all the difference , I switch to careful mode when working with concentrated acids or
other dangerous chemicals.
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woelen
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I have experience with 30% H2O2 on my skin, and indeed it can be quite irritating. It gives white spots. I never, however, had serious issues with it.
I usually also work without gloves. Also, when handling 30% H2O2, conc. H2OS4, conc. HCl, conc. HBr, and 65% nitric acid.
Some chemicals, however, I do not pour, but for these I use a pipette to transfer them from a small bottle to a test tube (or other reaction vessel).
The chemicals I am talking about are:
- bromine
- thionyl chloride
- sulfuryl chloride
- chlorosulfonic acid
- acetyl chloride
- hydrofluoric acid
I put the bottle in the ceramic sink and I put the reaction vessel in the sink as well and then I use a pipette to transfer the liquid. In this way,
the risk of getting the chemical on your hand is practically zero.
Working with hydrofluoric acid is a special thing. Actually I hardly do any experiments with that. It is too dangerous. Much more dangerous than the
other bad guys, also because of its extremely risky systemic effects.
I never had a drop of one of the pipetted chemicals on my skin, and if I accidentally dripped some of the chemical outside the reaction vessel, then I
just let it go and when cleaning up, I rinsed it away with a lot of water, before touching the reaction vessel.
[Edited on 9-6-20 by woelen]
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woelen
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Thread Moved
9-6-2020 at 01:50 |
karlos³
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I have to say, the only things I use gloves now always are bromoketones, benzyl halides and irritating nitrostyrenes.
And I handle them just as woelen describes when I transfer them, never weigh them but always measure the amounts per density.
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Syn the Sizer
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For pretty much everything I do not wear gloves, but I hate the itching and burning from H2O2 so I usually have 2 paper towels
folded that I handle my H2O2 grad cylinders with just because little drips happen.
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Chemorg42
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Well, I guess I am somewhat paranoid, then.
I ware latex gloves for basically everything, though I sometimes remove them if I am just heating a relatively safe solvent like acetone, isopropanol,
or some such.
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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Draeger
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42 | Well, I guess I am somewhat paranoid, then.
I ware latex gloves for basically everything, though I sometimes remove them if I am just heating a relatively safe solvent like acetone, isopropanol,
or some such. |
Correct me if I am wrong, but I think that latex gloves are not enough for most chemicals you'd wear gloves around.
Collected elements:
Al, Cu, Ga, C (coal), S, Zn, Na
Collected compounds:
Inorganic:
NaOH; NaHCO3; MnCl2; MnCO3; CuSO4; FeSO4; aq. 30-33% HCl; aq. NaClO; aq. 9,5% ammonia; aq. 94-96% H2SO4; aq. 3% H2O2
Organic:
citric acid, sodium acetate, sodium citrate, petroleum, mineral oil
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Syn the Sizer
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No it's not being over paranoid, it's being safe. In most industries gloves of some sort are mandatory. Whether cut resistant gloves when dealing with
sharps, heavy work gloves when dealing with other stuff, nitrile for solvent uses. When I worked for Cat in my city, I was the main hose builder for
Saskatchewan, other Cat stores in the province would send hoses to me for rebuild. I wore nitrile gloves under my kevlar cut resistant gloves. The
kevlar gloves didn't prevent hydraulic fluid, diesel or whatever other stuff was used in those hoses, fertilizers of all sorts etc, so the nitrile
stopped that.
In the refrigeration industry we always had to wear gloves really hot/cold pipes are not fun to touch with bare hands, as well, when turning wrenches
you never know when it might slip and your hand smashes on something. A glove is a layer between you skin and contact point.
That is party an due to insurance. Even is your skills are good in the lab and you trust yourself not to get the heavy metal salt in your mouth. The
lab you work in doesn't want to take that chance.
There are also applications where I always wear gloves.
Edit:
I do agree with Draeger Latex is more permeable than nitrile. do the vanilla test with a latex glove and a nitrile glove, see which one smell
stronger.
[Edited on 9-6-2020 by Syn the Sizer]
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Belowzero
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| Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer | No it's not being over paranoid, it's being safe. In most industries gloves of some sort are mandatory. Whether cut resistant gloves when dealing with
sharps, heavy work gloves when dealing with other stuff, nitrile for solvent uses. When I worked for Cat in my city, I was the main hose builder for
Saskatchewan, other Cat stores in the province would send hoses to me for rebuild. I wore nitrile gloves under my kevlar cut resistant gloves. The
kevlar gloves didn't prevent hydraulic fluid, diesel or whatever other stuff was used in those hoses, fertilizers of all sorts etc, so the nitrile
stopped that.
In the refrigeration industry we always had to wear gloves really hot/cold pipes are not fun to touch with bare hands, as well, when turning wrenches
you never know when it might slip and your hand smashes on something. A glove is a layer between you skin and contact point.
That is party an due to insurance. Even is your skills are good in the lab and you trust yourself not to get the heavy metal salt in your mouth. The
lab you work in doesn't want to take that chance.
There are also applications where I always wear gloves.
Edit:
I do agree with Draeger Latex is more permeable than nitrile. do the vanilla test with a latex glove and a nitrile glove, see which one smell
stronger.
[Edited on 9-6-2020 by Syn the Sizer] |
I agree with you that it is not being paranoid and when it comes to daily / regular exposure and risk management it is sensible.
Even with moderately harmful solvents for example , if one has to handle large amounts on a daily basis it can build up and introduce long term health
effects which Should be taken into account.
Heck when I had this part time job cleaning industrial dust filters I wore a gasmask eventhough it wasnt offically required.
This is just common sense.
Since chemistry for me is a hobby I make a different risk calculation; is this exposure dangerous for my health? and is the risk/reward (or in this
case hassle) worth the risk/effort?
Handeling substances that have no direct impact on my health and have a frequency that does not introduce long term effects are simply not worth the
annoyance of taking all possible precautions into account.
Simply put, it's is a nuance towards; better safe than sorry.
[Edited on 9-6-2020 by Belowzero]
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Chemorg42
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@Syn and @Draeger,
I am aware that latex is not the most robust type of glove I could be using, however, I do not at this time work with anything which is extremely
dangerous (most hazardous chemicals 31.45% HCl and NaOH), also, I think of my gloves as more of a delay than a protection. If I get a chemical on my
glove which could be concerning, I would quickly remove the glove, rather than viewing my glove as invulnerable to chemicals.
Anyone who is not shocked by quantum theory has not understood a single word. (attributed to Niels Bohr)
I think I can safely say that nobody understands quantum mechanics. (Richard Feynman)
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Syn the Sizer
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Yes, many solvents I do wear gloves with. Most organic solvents are not good for you.
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XeonTheMGPony
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| Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42 | | Quote: Originally posted by Morgan | | My dentist suggested diluting 3% H2O2 with water 50/50 as a mouthwash. I felt like I had throat cancer from the effect. Never again.
|
My grandfather swallows several drops of 30% H2O2 per day to "Clear his system." Normally, I think that if people want to
indulge in pseudoscientific home remedy drivel, then nothing I say is likely to stop them, but seriously, 30% hydrogen peroxide?!, That just can't be
good for a person (not to mention burn like heck.)
Has anyone else come across this self destructive "Health" practice? |
they sell 4l jugs of 35% of "food grade" peroxide here at the hippy shop for that purpose, they mix it in water, that is by far better then the idiots
that add bleach to it to make miracle moron water.
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XeonTheMGPony
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| Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer | | Quote: Originally posted by Chemorg42 |
My grandfather swallows several drops of 30% H2O2 per day to "Clear his system." Normally, I think that if people want to
indulge in pseudoscientific home remedy drivel, then nothing I say is likely to stop them, but seriously, 30% hydrogen peroxide?!, That just can't be
good for a person (not to mention burn like heck.)
Has anyone else come across this self destructive "Health" practice? |
I have heard it is sold in some health food stores here for that purpose. Though I get mine from a garden shop.
| Quote: Originally posted by karlos³ | Yeah I was surprised the first times I worked with concentrated H2O2 at home, since I never experienced that at work.
Its ok though, I never found it hurts much, I guess I was lucky so far.
But acids, oh man, I've gotten once or thrice conc. H2SO4 in cuts at the hands.... never hydrogen peroxide though(luckily).
|
Ouch, I bet the H2SO4 in a cut would burn like hell.
[Edited on 9-6-2020 by Syn the Sizer] |
Yes, yes it does! any acid does really but H2SO4 is obnoxious as it behaves like oil and just coats every thing.
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Syn the Sizer
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Yes I agree, and nitric acid leaves annoying stains. But still none of the 3 "bench acids" as I have heard them called have cause near as much
discomfort after prolonged (~30s) exposure as H2O2 even when washed right away.
Though on my dry skin HCl starts to itch and sting right away but that is to be expected.
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Bedlasky
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| Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer |
Yes I agree, and nitric acid leaves annoying stains. But still none of the 3 "bench acids" as I have heard them called have cause near as much
discomfort after prolonged (~30s) exposure as H2O2 even when washed right away.
Though on my dry skin HCl starts to itch and sting right away but that is to be expected. |
It depends on concentration. When azeotropic HNO3 spills on my fingers, I often notice anything. But 99% HNO3 on fingers immediately burns like a
hell.
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