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Fery
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[*] posted on 30-7-2020 at 11:26


If you are able to obtain lidocaine, you can synthesize denatonium from it, the most bitter substance yet known (you won't be able to feed yourself with your own hands for a lot of days without tasting that nasty compound). Though it is usually easier to buy denatonium saccharide/benzoate than lidocaine.

[Edited on 30-7-2020 by Fery]




If there is a heaven, it seems not to be materially based. Does chemistry exist there and if yes, how does it look like? Are there good souls well supplied with laboratory equipment, glass, chemicals and information?
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[*] posted on 30-7-2020 at 20:22


I have seen NileRed make that stuff and I'd rather not. He was playing cards with some friends a few days after making the stuff with copious hand washing, and one of his friends ended up with a bitter taste in his mouth from him. Screw that haha.

I have ultimately decided on making benzocaine. It will be difficult for me as I know the theory but this will be the first time I do such reactions in a practical manner. To most, the synthesis is probably trivial but I was already a bit stressed out because I couldn't figure some things out. The text book I was given by someone in this thread has lots of false information and many synthesis are written terribly and are missing reagents. Maybe I am missing something but I don't want to follow it. The current synthesis scheme I am going to go for is toluene --> nitrotoluene --> p-nitrotoluene --> p-nitrobenzoic acid --> p-aminobenzoic acid --> ethyl p-aminobenzoate which is the benzocaine I am going for.

The mono nitration already gives me some issues. I don't have concentrated nitric acid but I made dilute nitric acid which is assumed to be 40-50% and while I need to do a crude titration of it, I think it will work since I did the math to get the ratios of acids and water to the proper percentages for mono nitration. I see people make some of their mononitrotoluene baths up to 50C though! I'm going to stay below 20C since I want 0 dinitrated product. While I have easily done many tri and tetra nitrations, I was able to just dump a nitrate salt into sulfuric acid and call it good. I could possibly do the same thing here but I don't really know how well a nitrate salt for toluene. I assume it'd be fine if I drip the acid onto some water to dilute it to approximate ratios but I'm not sure. I may do a test tube scale nitration test to see if I get proper products. Then again, making more toluene isn't too much of an issue for me. I currently have a little bit I extracted from carb cleaner but I may extract another can to make sure I can have as many nitration attempts as possible. Separation of para isomer is seemingly easy since I just need to chill the crude oily product to below -10C and then the p-nitrotoluene should crystallize out. Vacuum filter and recrystallize.

Then, the next part. The oxidation of p-nitrotoluene. I was going to use potassium dichromate but after reading the msds I quickly cancelled that. The oxidation is cleaner and likely easier to separate the product, but my god the toxicity is too much for me to want to handle. So I am using KMnO4 in acidic conditions. It's more messy but worth not giving myself cancer and dealing with even worse hazardous waste. So I'll try to oxidize the methyl group of toluene using KMnO4 to make p-nitrobenzoic acid. I'll add a solution of KMnO4 to the p-nitrotoluene and sulfuric acid, and reflux until the reaction is complete. I think I will try to use the KMnO4 as the limiting reactant so that I don't have leftover KMnO4. If I do have leftover KMnO4 I could just add some bisulfate until colorless correct? One thing I don't know is whether the p-nitrobenzoic acid will form a salt with the potassium ions. That should make it water soluble and I can just filter off the MnO2 and then precipitate the p-nitrobenzoic acid by deprotonating it with sodium hydroxide solution. If it decides to not form a salt and just precipitates out, I can filter and wash with water. Then the MnO2 and p-nitrobenzoic acid is separated by dissolving the p-nitrobenzoic acid in acetone, leaving the insoluble MnO2 behind.

The next and possibly most difficult step (according to the book I was given that had the inaccurate info in it) is reducing the nitro group to an amine. I'll use tin that I try to get as thin and small as possible with HCl. I found a paper that documents the whole process so I am not too worried anymore about failing that step. Isolating the p-aminobenzoic acid is the hard part according to the book, but it seems like the paper I have gets it right. I cross referenced it to other papers I managed to dig up and the isolation of product is practically identical. Add ammonia solution until the pH is around 8, filter the tin salt precipitate, concentrate by steam bath evaporation, and then adding a small amount of glacial acetic acid until the pH is about 3. Then cool the solution and the p-aminobenzoic acid should precipitate.

The last step I haven't researched too much but I know it should be the easiest step of them all. Fischer esterification with sulfuric acid and ethanol. There are many videos on Youtube alone showing this step so I am confident this won't be an issue.

If all goes well, I should now have relatively pure ethyl p-aminobenzoate aka benzocaine. I'll test the melting point and hopefully it is near theoretical. I'll test as many ways as possible to make sure I have the actual product. If I do I will be so ecstatic knowing I just pulled off my first multi step organic synthesis.

Does the above reaction plan sound good? I am super pessimistic and feel like I will fail at everything so I am really wanting to make sure I'm not about to become really frustrated over nothing.

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thors.lab
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 01:08


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
I was going to prepare acetaminophen but guess who doesn't have the balls to make acetic anhydride? This guy.
[Edited on 30-7-2020 by fdnjj6]


Hahah this is why I gave up on my synthesis as well.




Please check out my latest video: Synthesizing Nitrobenzene, and the last one:
Making Nitric Acid.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 01:16


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  

The mono nitration already gives me some issues. I don't have concentrated nitric acid but I made dilute nitric acid which is assumed to be 40-50% and while I need to do a crude titration of it, I think it will work since I did the math to get the ratios of acids and water to the proper percentages for mono nitration. I see people make some of their mononitrotoluene baths up to 50C though! I'm going to stay below 20C since I want 0 dinitrated product. While I have easily done many tri and tetra nitrations, I was able to just dump a nitrate salt into sulfuric acid and call it good. I could possibly do the same thing here but I don't really know how well a nitrate salt for toluene. I assume it'd be fine if I drip the acid onto some water to dilute it to approximate ratios but I'm not sure. I may do a test tube scale nitration test to see if I get proper products. Then again, making more toluene isn't too much of an issue for me. I currently have a little bit I extracted from carb cleaner but I may extract another can to make sure I can have as many nitration attempts as possible. Separation of para isomer is seemingly easy since I just need to chill the crude oily product to below -10C and then the p-nitrotoluene should crystallize out. Vacuum filter and recrystallize.


I don't think nitration of toluene should pose an issue. I assume it would be similar to the nitration of benzene. NileRed has a video on it, as do I. If you don't have 68% nitric acid, it's pretty damn quick and easy to make (there are dozens on YouTube, I also have a video on that myself).

Source on the separation of p-nitrotoluene? Can't seem to find anything on that. I might try it out myself.




Please check out my latest video: Synthesizing Nitrobenzene, and the last one:
Making Nitric Acid.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 03:41


@toms lab https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4-Nitrotoluene#:~:... check the freezing point. Also do you happen to have a youtube channel?
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 04:08


Quote: Originally posted by njl  
@toms lab https://pubchem.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/compound/4-Nitrotoluene#:~:... check the freezing point. Also do you happen to have a youtube channel?


I don't see Tom's lab in this thread so maybe you're talking about me (Thor's lab). Yeah I do have a YouTube channel, it's in my signature :) Tom's lab is great too, he's also on YouTube!

MP of 4-nitrotoluene is 50ishºC. You said we need to chill to -10ºC. Just wondering where you get that figure from?




Please check out my latest video: Synthesizing Nitrobenzene, and the last one:
Making Nitric Acid.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 04:40


Separation of p-nitrotoluene from o-nitrotoluene is easy, it freezes out nicely from the ortho in any freezer, just go as low as your freezer goes. I don't know what happens if you go below -20, but even at that temperature the ortho won't freeze. I suspect the contamination of the para causes freezing point lowering of the ortho. But as far as I can tell the para that freezes out is as pure as you can wash/suck the ortho off.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 22:04


Yea so the thing is I'm not putting that in my freezer. I will cool the isomer mix in an ice bath, then cool a 20-24% NaCl solution to -20C and then use that solution to precipitate the isomers. The papers I found use -20C with good separation. I have a ghettoish vacuum filtration set up that should work to filter everything quickly. The only thing I didn't understand/like is that the ortho freezes at around -10C so I assume the isomers form a eutectic mix and that the para product ppt first. Once I perform the reactions I will test the melting point of the solid product The ortho and para have a pretty separate melting point so I'll know if I have my product. Making conc. nitric acid is very easy but I really don't like distilling acids. I need to run some test on the dilute acid I have and if it is at least 40% it is usable. I'll have to up the sulfuric acid amount to match the ratios from patents to get decent yields. I'm assuming my acid is 50% but titration will tell. I am waiting on a thermometer piece until I proceed with fractional distillation of toluene and the subsequent steps.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 22:06


Oh I got that number since the freezing point of ortho is around -10C. Since this should be fractional crystallization I assumed that would work. According to papers I found they all mention -20C to be the temp to aim for. I'll get as close as possible. Then I'll vacuum filter and recrystallize the solid. Small sample gets a MP check and then if it is reasonably pure I move on to the rest of the synthesis.
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[*] posted on 3-8-2020 at 23:55


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Yea so the thing is I'm not putting that in my freezer. I will cool the isomer mix in an ice bath, then cool a 20-24% NaCl solution to -20C and then use that solution to precipitate the isomers. The papers I found use -20C with good separation. I have a ghettoish vacuum filtration set up that should work to filter everything quickly. The only thing I didn't understand/like is that the ortho freezes at around -10C so I assume the isomers form a eutectic mix and that the para product ppt first. Once I perform the reactions I will test the melting point of the solid product The ortho and para have a pretty separate melting point so I'll know if I have my product. Making conc. nitric acid is very easy but I really don't like distilling acids. I need to run some test on the dilute acid I have and if it is at least 40% it is usable. I'll have to up the sulfuric acid amount to match the ratios from patents to get decent yields. I'm assuming my acid is 50% but titration will tell. I am waiting on a thermometer piece until I proceed with fractional distillation of toluene and the subsequent steps.


I appreciate your caution but I think you might be being a little overly cautious. Nitric acid distillation is pretty easy and not as bad as sulfuric acid because the temperatures involved are much more reasonable (120ºC compared to like 300). I also don't think a bit of nitrotoluene in your freezer is going to be a big deal if its inside a container with something covering it. 4 nitrotoluene vapor pressure is gonna be super low at that temperature (like less than 0.015 kPa, compared to benzene at like 10kPa). The vapor is also denser than air so it will sink and stay in the container.

That being said if you have the patience to avoid all of that then that's definitely the way to go haha.




Please check out my latest video: Synthesizing Nitrobenzene, and the last one:
Making Nitric Acid.
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[*] posted on 4-8-2020 at 00:02


Quote: Originally posted by fdnjj6  
Oh I got that number since the freezing point of ortho is around -10C. Since this should be fractional crystallization I assumed that would work. According to papers I found they all mention -20C to be the temp to aim for. I'll get as close as possible. Then I'll vacuum filter and recrystallize the solid. Small sample gets a MP check and then if it is reasonably pure I move on to the rest of the synthesis.


How are you doing MP check? I've been wanting to get a way to do that in my lab. I don't trust those cheap ass spirit thermometer based ones.

Side note: I think I want to upgrade to a heating mantle rather than a hot plate since I'm getting pretty sick of oil baths. Any affordable recommendations? Looking at this cheap ass $150 amazon 500mL one from Faithful but I'm not so sure I trust it. Or maybe the even cheaper analog heating one.




Please check out my latest video: Synthesizing Nitrobenzene, and the last one:
Making Nitric Acid.
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[*] posted on 4-8-2020 at 02:40


Yea I am definitely a overcautious. I am 99% sure I could just place the stuff in my freezer and call it good. However, that just doesn't sit right with me. Chemicals should go nowhere near food so I'd rather do the extra work than gamble on the 1% chance that something goes wrong. I could have the p-nitrotoluene crystallize out a lot and expand, cracking the glass and leaking nitrotoluene everywhere. Just something I'd rather not do.

I also don't want to distill acids anymore. I have distilled nitric acid before but it just scares me too much at this point and if you are working with fear in you mind, you are bound to make mistakes. Once the rest of my lab equipment finally arrives I'll be able to properly titrate the nitric acid. It should be around 50%. Also storing it dilute is safer and fumes much less. I used to be *heavily* into explosive chemistry and I still didn't dare distill fuming nitric acid. I always made it in situ and just kept my dilute acid for dissolving metals. At some point I'll run out but it should be a while.

I figured out the ratios needed for mono nitration and like I said 40-50% should work just fine. It might even yield better since less target product is reacted into dinitrotoluenes. Not sure though.

As far as the melting point thing goes, I will just allow the crystals to warm up to room temp. Once they warm up, if they melt between 0-30C I know it's heavily contaminated. If it melts at around 50C I'll be good to move on. I'll likely just use a test tube with a thermometer in a water bath that is slowly raised to a higher and higher temp. Once the sample melts, I'll begin recording the temps. The readings will not be very accurate at all but will give me a good idea if I have my target product. I think if you can get some capillary tubes and put them in an oil bath and observe the sample, you can probably get more accurate results but I'm not sure how close you can get to proper machines doing the work.
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[*] posted on 4-8-2020 at 03:36


Rule of the tumb: in an amateur setting you only have to worry about water, bismuth and gallium expanding when freezing. The rest shrinks. That is a good thing because otherwise a lot of glacial acetic acid spills would occur.
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[*] posted on 9-8-2020 at 17:55


Forum rules? Scientific discussions are OK. Not supposed to be a "Cooking" forum.

I'll pretty much discuss anything. I just assume you are in an academic environment, or have a permit, or...the material in question isn't regulated in your jurisdiction.

Otherwise, it is to the reformatory, that you may be a-going.

Heh, heh. Propofol, iced Michael Jackson, and possibly Brittany Murphy too! Final Exit stuff.

Why not Viagra? More life affirming! And probably, as long as you don't sell it, nobody cares.

Nope! Viagra looked like a pain in the ass.

Cialis! Cialis, is doable. Especially if the dimethoxy analog is active.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09574...

Um. Better check that.

Yeah, not sure of activity, but Veratraldehyde is more easily synthesized or acquired, than Piperonal.

Tryptophan is cheap and available. Fun project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadalafil

The 3,4-Methylenedioxy substituent, may be replaced by other groups. But I haven't been able to find an extensive list. 3,4-Dimethoxy, would figure to be active, but I can't find data.



[Edited on 10-8-2020 by zed]
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[*] posted on 10-8-2020 at 16:02


Quote: Originally posted by zed  
Forum rules? Scientific discussions are OK. Not supposed to be a "Cooking" forum.

I'll pretty much discuss anything. I just assume you are in an academic environment, or have a permit, or...the material in question isn't regulated in your jurisdiction.

Otherwise, it is to the reformatory, that you may be a-going.

Heh, heh. Propofol, iced Michael Jackson, and possibly Brittany Murphy too! Final Exit stuff.

Why not Viagra? More life affirming! And probably, as long as you don't sell it, nobody cares.

Nope! Viagra looked like a pain in the ass.

Cialis! Cialis, is doable. Especially if the dimethoxy analog is active.
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S09574...

Um. Better check that.

Yeah, not sure of activity, but Veratraldehyde is more easily synthesized or acquired, than Piperonal.

Tryptophan is cheap and available. Fun project.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tadalafil

The 3,4-Methylenedioxy substituent, may be replaced by other groups. But I haven't been able to find an extensive list. 3,4-Dimethoxy, would figure to be active, but I can't find data.



[Edited on 10-8-2020 by zed]


? benzocaine and nitric acid are not illegal or a "cooking" type thing... I'm not sure what you mean. I was literally looking for just a good project to test my skills. Why would I choose benzocaine which has absolutely 0 pleasant effects? It's literally just a local anesthetic and is sold all over the place.

I've already finished the extraction of toluene and the nitration. I just need to dry the isomer mix now and separate the isomers. Should be easy but very toxic so it takes a lot of time and effort to plan everything out to go smoothly. The nitration I did was highly detailed and I still had some spills and mishaps. All is well though.

I didn't ask for "cooking" help, I just wanted some medicinal multi step projects. I have thymolphthalein and other synthesis lined up, but wanted something different.

So far through this project I have already learned LOADS of stuff and it's pretty fun. Once the p-nitrotoluene is oxidized into p-nitrobenzoic acid, the toxicity for the whole rest of the synthesis also is basically normal. I don't like the cancerous and toxic nature of the nitrotoluene so the next steps will be much more fun since I don't have to worry about giving myself cancer anymore. Although I don't have to anyway since I wore a proper respirator, had a fan, did it outside, used an almost completely closed reaction vessel, went through about 8 pairs of gloves, had two layers of full body covering, and was only able to smell the nitrotoluene a few times for only a couple (2-5) seconds. So given the minimal exposure and high safety in place, I think I'm fine. I can't wait for the benzocaine haha. I will have made a modern local anesthetic from a $2 carb cleaner bottle. That's assuming everything will go right and I get decent yields though. Wish me luck!
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[*] posted on 10-8-2020 at 16:05


I also didn't know propofol had such effects. I was still researching and looking for new projects to do and the structure seemed like something I could achieve. The synthesis ended up being something I might have been able to pull off but I felt it was still a bit out of reach. As far as I knew, propofol isn't illegal to make or possess where I live. I didn't look into it much as I was still just making a list of doable synthesis that weren't obviously illegal like methamphetamine, quaalude, or MDMA.

Thanks for the recommendation! The structure looks quite intimidating though.
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 08:35


Seing your earlier use of German I'll assume you are either in Germany or Austria.

If so, possession of nitric acid is and has been illegal for several years now. It doesnt matter if you make it or buy it.
Propofol is an anesthetic. You didnt think this would be a regulated substance well... I cant help you there.




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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 10:01


I know for certain that propofol isn't "regulated", when we assume the usual meaning of that means it is a controlled drug.
Precisely, it doesn't fall under any of the drug law categories, however it does of course under the pharmaceutical drug law, just like anything else that is used for humans.

The reason I know this exactly is, that I've read an article about how this lack of regulation and consequently no strict inventory control in the hospital depots, is said to be the most important factor that resulted in doctor, mostly the anesthetists with access and knowledge about its use, to abuse this stuff, shockingly often even.

However, now with the OP having snapped, I would strongly disadvise against him trying to make anything stronger than aspirin!
But for the record, as I know the field of "synthesis of medical organic molecules" quite well, even if I would never call it like this, I know there are much better target molecules, many of them uncontrolled, most of them quite simple to make, and definitely something that promises fun for responsible adults.
But all of them are definitely nothing that belongs into the hands of too young adults.

Aspirin as said.
That is a good target compound, harmless and absolutely not promising fun.
I would recommend making this to the OP.
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 11:49


Quote: Originally posted by Herr Haber  
Seing your earlier use of German I'll assume you are either in Germany or Austria.

If so, possession of nitric acid is and has been illegal for several years now. It doesnt matter if you make it or buy it.
Propofol is an anesthetic. You didnt think this would be a regulated substance well... I cant help you there.


Not in any of those countries. I don't make nitric acid anymore though.

I don't think it's necessarily illegal to own or make nitric acid in Germany, it is regulated and I believe illegal to sell though.

Also things like chloroform and chlorobutanol are also anesthetics and not regulated or illegal at all. Granted, a bit different but nonetheless still not regulated.

Just because something is regulated doesn't mean it can't be discussed here. If something is illegal to own or make that's different but I mean explosives, things like o-toluidine, acetic anhydride, are all HIGHLY regulated and discussion is still allowed. I don't think propofol is a scheduled substance (at least where I live) and so I figured no harm is done.

[Edited on 14-8-2020 by fdnjj6]
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 12:04


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I know for certain that propofol isn't "regulated", when we assume the usual meaning of that means it is a controlled drug.
Precisely, it doesn't fall under any of the drug law categories, however it does of course under the pharmaceutical drug law, just like anything else that is used for humans.

The reason I know this exactly is, that I've read an article about how this lack of regulation and consequently no strict inventory control in the hospital depots, is said to be the most important factor that resulted in doctor, mostly the anesthetists with access and knowledge about its use, to abuse this stuff, shockingly often even.

However, now with the OP having snapped, I would strongly disadvise against him trying to make anything stronger than aspirin!
But for the record, as I know the field of "synthesis of medical organic molecules" quite well, even if I would never call it like this, I know there are much better target molecules, many of them uncontrolled, most of them quite simple to make, and definitely something that promises fun for responsible adults.
But all of them are definitely nothing that belongs into the hands of too young adults.

Aspirin as said.
That is a good target compound, harmless and absolutely not promising fun.
I would recommend making this to the OP.


You know I've calmed down quite a bit and I'll admit I took things a bit too personally in that post (life's not the best right now, at all actually, which is why I'm trying to get into more challenging chem to take my mind off of it), however, the post in question wasn't even targeted towards you since you claim to have good safety, fume hood, etc. (at least I think you said that) and the post was directed towards people who thought they were doing things safely like me. There's a large misconception that doing things outside is exactly the same as having a fume hood. The words are often used interchangeably in many amateur Youtube videos.

While I am not a child or kid, (the nitric acid happened ages ago and the nitrotoluene wasn't something I even knew about as a kid minus TNT) and I do have the skills and most of the equipment to do advanced organic chemistry, I just don't have the right setting to do it. I can and have kept myself safe for the entire 6 years of amateur chemistry. I started safe and easy for the first years, then explosive chem, and now organic chem. I never as much got an acid burn. Maybe a thermal burn from a hot plate but I was always unharmed.

My post was regarding the safety of others around you and seeing how I was torn apart for trying to help people out and not have them make the same mistakes as me, I was (in my eyes) relatively justified to be outraged a bit. Like I said I took it too far and actually U2Ued the mods to just ban my account because I was so pissed seeing how people just seem to not give a fuck about the people around them. I was thinking of never even looking back on this website. I don't know if I still want to just leave the website as a whole as I can still post some reports of the chemistry I am still doing (like I said amateur chem is still something I think should definitely stay around, just the stuff at home how most amateurs run it should be kept at safe chem).

Funnily enough aspirin is the only chemical that put me in the emergency room. Wasn't doing chemistry but my body seemed to not like it.

But I am able to synthesize things and can handle advanced things. I've got one semi advanced synthesis lined up for benzoic acid esters from carb cleaner (toluene extraction), a biodiesel synthesis (just for shits and giggles and trying to maximize yield), chlorobutanol ( I realized chloroform is something that is acceptable even at home), possibly isopropyl nitrite, thymolphthalein, methyl anthranilate from xylene isomer mix, solvent preparation, and some titrations that need to be done.

So I'm not done, still a bit disappointed, but definitely took things too personally. Not sure if the mods will still ban me since I practically begged them to. Guess I'll find out.

[Edited on 14-8-2020 by fdnjj6]
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 12:20


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  
I know for certain that propofol isn't "regulated", when we assume the usual meaning of that means it is a controlled drug.
Precisely, it doesn't fall under any of the drug law categories, however it does of course under the pharmaceutical drug law, just like anything else that is used for humans.

The reason I know this exactly is, that I've read an article about how this lack of regulation and consequently no strict inventory control in the hospital depots, is said to be the most important factor that resulted in doctor, mostly the anesthetists with access and knowledge about its use, to abuse this stuff, shockingly often even.

However, now with the OP having snapped, I would strongly disadvise against him trying to make anything stronger than aspirin!
But for the record, as I know the field of "synthesis of medical organic molecules" quite well, even if I would never call it like this, I know there are much better target molecules, many of them uncontrolled, most of them quite simple to make, and definitely something that promises fun for responsible adults.
But all of them are definitely nothing that belongs into the hands of too young adults.

Aspirin as said.
That is a good target compound, harmless and absolutely not promising fun.
I would recommend making this to the OP.


Also, while I'm sure you'll probably still doubt it, what I said was true. It wasn't some made up lie. Why would I lie about that?

I work at night so people don't see my hazmat suit and glassware and call the cops (I had a sheriff slowly drive by once with his spotlight looking for someone, but they were looking for a missing person and not me haha), and also since the weather is typically much more calmer at night. That night was damn near wind still and since I was working with the nitrotoluene isomer mix for a few hours failing to get proper separation (I got probably 500mg or p-nitrotoluene since I didn't have a prechilled vacuum filtration system, I have one but seeing what the nitrotoluene did to my storage bottle lid, I didn't want it to ruin my pump) and add on top of that that nitrotoluene has a very low odor threshold and very distinct (to me a cherry like odor, people say almond but it smells like cherries to me) smell, I think that is why my family member was able to smell it. They do tend to freak out though but justifiably so but even after I lied and said that it was all non toxic they calmed down but still complained of a burning sensation which matches the irritation potential that nitrotoluenes have. So it wasn't at a negligible concentration anymore. I had exposed myself to some of the fumes and had nothing. But after I was exposed to a very low concentration for 2 days (low enough to not even smell) I had a fruity metallic taste in my mouth and a bit of a weird feeling in my head.
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 13:05


THIS WRITEUP by one of the "OG" members of this site (Magpie RIP) should put to rest this crap that discussion of "drug chemistry" is verboten here. It's all in the context. Yeah, maybe someone here makes benzaldehyde (a DEA List 1 precursor) so they can use it as almond flavoring but I really doubt it.


*EDIT* A quote from Polverones "Mad Science FAQ's"

Quote:
Do not request spoonfeeding of information for clandestine drug manufacture. However, every sort of chemistry is a permissible topic of discussion if you discuss it like a scientist.


[Edited on 8-14-2020 by arkoma]




Quote:
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 14:55


Quote: Originally posted by arkoma  
THIS WRITEUP by one of the "OG" members of this site (Magpie RIP) should put to rest this crap that discussion of "drug chemistry" is verboten here. It's all in the context. Yeah, maybe someone here makes benzaldehyde (a DEA List 1 precursor) so they can use it as almond flavoring but I really doubt it.


*EDIT* A quote from Polverones "Mad Science FAQ's"

Quote:
Do not request spoonfeeding of information for clandestine drug manufacture. However, every sort of chemistry is a permissible topic of discussion if you discuss it like a scientist.


[Edited on 8-14-2020 by arkoma]


Thank you. I find the spectrum of sensitivity on this site quite weird. Some people straight up admit to exposing others with chemical fumes and they don't care. Others get rotten if there is a hint of a possible drug precursor involved. In this case nothing illegal at any point which I clearly made crystal clear in the original post.
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[*] posted on 14-8-2020 at 23:51


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  

However, now with the OP having snapped, I would strongly disadvise against him trying to make anything stronger than aspirin!
But for the record, as I know the field of "synthesis of medical organic molecules" quite well, even if I would never call it like this, I know there are much better target molecules, many of them uncontrolled, most of them quite simple to make, and definitely something that promises fun for responsible adults.
But all of them are definitely nothing that belongs into the hands of too young adults.

Aspirin as said.
That is a good target compound, harmless and absolutely not promising fun.
I would recommend making this to the OP.


Quicksilver's reply under someone making a remotely meh comment towards a guy who ended up in the ER for mishandling ETN (I used to make this stuff and learned from him to not heat that shit even if tempted, I learned quite a lot from people through them sharing their mistakes actually).

Here is what he had to say:

It's inappropriate to call someone names who has the courage of his convictions in displaying his mistakes.

When someone admits he has made a mistake and put that "on front street" it's obvious that he is doing so to show how dangerous something can be. This is NOT typical! Typically the injured individual slinks away and never communicates again.

If you would like to see just how fucking angry I can get - just call this man names.
Anymore name-calling & there will be problems.....I hope that is DAMN CLEAR.
His actions were ill thought out and he knew it yet he made extreme errors in judgement. He also was honest enough to publicly display his mistakes to benefit those who may mis-judge experiments with energetics. His honestly is commendable; his judgment was not....PERIOD!
Name calling in this instance makes me seriously angry. Gentlemen; to sit on the sidelines (and do so) is NOT science.

ONE mis-calculation with energetic materials can be enough to loose eyes, fingers/hands, genitals, etc. It HAPPENS - SO OFTEN that the majority here don't realize it.
One of the major thrusts of this forum is learning science and NOT practical applications. Lab safety cannot be stressed too much BECAUSE we eventually become lax.
Sometime back I discussed the concept of NEVER working with materials if you feel the least bit "off" that day. If your mind is elsewhere, if you are pre-occupied, or tired - whatever. I would be willing to BET GOOD MONEY that everything I had outlined the OP knew.

This is very important thread. The issues were containment, particle size/weight, stimulus, and proximity. IF you gentlemen are going to discuss this in elements of science then do so. And do so with the knowledge that the OP put himself out there for potential ridicule to PREVENT this from happening to others. However I will NOT allow this man to be ridiculed & I hope that is damn clear!

The MOMENT you think this can't happen to you is the very moment that it can! That is one of the first things taught in a variety of professional settings, so let it also be known here as well.



Looks like I'm not the only one who would've/did snap on someone ridiculing a person sharing their mistakes. Quicksilver is well respected on SM and seeing how I was treated by you and the mods, I feel a hint of irony in all of this.

I know I should be over it by now but I figured I'd show you that I'm not some dumbass kewl who snaps at everything (which by looking at the post you just put out for everyone to see, it sure as hell sounds like you think of me like that). Plus the post wasn't even aimed at you and your "safe lab" so there was no reason to act how you did. Thanks to you and your ridiculing, calling me a sissy, liar, attention whore, etc. for sharing my mistakes which I hoped others could learn from, and promoted safe chemistry for people who don't have the proper fume hoods and filters, you instead got the whole thread moved to detritus for less people to see. So thanks for that man. Really blows when people like you show up.

[Edited on 15-8-2020 by fdnjj6]

[Edited on 15-8-2020 by fdnjj6]
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[*] posted on 15-8-2020 at 03:42


Quote: Originally posted by Syn the Sizer  
[rquote=641757&t
I had no idea tert-amyl alcohol was a recreational product. I had always though the only alcohol we could consume without hurting ourselves severely was ethanol.


I think there are 2other alcohols you can drink that have effect and aren't deadly.
I think ones got a vinyl group in there somewhere
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