Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Removing Perchlorates From The Body
MineMan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 664
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

sad.gif posted on 11-2-2021 at 14:13
Removing Perchlorates From The Body


Hi,

I am looking for advice or procedures on how to remove perchlorates from the body. A toxicity test showed I have very high levels. The doctors procedure has been high dose vitamin C, however that has not remedied the problem.

I assume it is fat and water soluble, any compounds that could bond to the perchlorate ion that I could then excrete? Or would it already be bonded to minerals like sodium and potassium in my body and brain?

Thank you all. Would really appreciate help and ideas!
View user's profile View All Posts By User
clearly_not_atara
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2145
Registered: 3-11-2013
Member Is Offline

Mood: Big

[*] posted on 11-2-2021 at 14:47


Since perchlorate is uptaken by the thyroid in competition with iodide, it seems like one possible remedy would be to increase your intake of iodine, which should release perchlorate from the thyroid and allow it to be excreted. Humans can briefly tolerate very high iodide intakes, but persistently high intake causes thyroid damage.

However, this must be discussed with a physician before any attempt at self-medication. Iodide is serious business.

Though to be honest, I find it hard to imagine vitamin C would help -- all available toxicological data suggests perchlorate is excreted unchanged in urine. To this end, increasing the overall amount of the major positive ions -- Na+, K+, Ca2+ -- in the diet should slightly speed up excretion, and is much safer than messing with iodide. Sodium chloride probably does not help because the Na+ is matched 1:1 with Cl-. Instead, potatoes, bananas, sweet potatoes, tomato sauce, and fruit juices are particularly dense sources of potassium, which is supposed to be the major positive ion in the diet, anyway.

Thanks for sharing your experience -- it's good for people to be aware of the risks involved when working with potential cumulative toxins.




[Edited on 04-20-1969 by clearly_not_atara]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
B(a)P
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 621
Registered: 29-9-2019
Member Is Offline

Mood: Confined

[*] posted on 11-2-2021 at 18:16


High perchlorate levels should come down without intervention, so it is likely you are still being exposed.
Do you know why your levels are high?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
MineMan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 664
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-2-2021 at 01:34


Quote: Originally posted by clearly_not_atara  
Since perchlorate is uptaken by the thyroid in competition with iodide, it seems like one possible remedy would be to increase your intake of iodine, which should release perchlorate from the thyroid and allow it to be excreted. Humans can briefly tolerate very high iodide intakes, but persistently high intake causes thyroid damage.

However, this must be discussed with a physician before any attempt at self-medication. Iodide is serious business.

Though to be honest, I find it hard to imagine vitamin C would help -- all available toxicological data suggests perchlorate is excreted unchanged in urine. To this end, increasing the overall amount of the major positive ions -- Na+, K+, Ca2+ -- in the diet should slightly speed up excretion, and is much safer than messing with iodide. Sodium chloride probably does not help because the Na+ is matched 1:1 with Cl-. Instead, potatoes, bananas, sweet potatoes, tomato sauce, and fruit juices are particularly dense sources of potassium, which is supposed to be the major positive ion in the diet, anyway.

Thanks for sharing your experience -- it's good for people to be aware of the risks involved when working with potential cumulative toxins.


I took iodine 2mg/day for one month. What do you consider a high dose?? I will talk with my doc, but he is looking for feedback too, docs don’t know everything. Only the 70 percent common issues.

Urine test showed zero vitamin C. So apparently the perchlorate are keeping the vitamin C from being bioavailable. Does this info help?
View user's profile View All Posts By User
andy1988
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 127
Registered: 11-2-2018
Location: NW Americus ([i]in re[/i] Amerigo Vespucci)
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-2-2021 at 04:17


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Hi,

I am looking for advice or procedures on how to remove perchlorates from the body. A toxicity test showed I have very high levels. The doctors procedure has been high dose vitamin C, however that has not remedied the problem.

This document looked good:
Toxicological Profile For Perchlorates
With chronic exposure to perchlorates (25d-6m) in animal models they observed a doubling or tripling of the thyroid size and reduction in serum T3, T4. (Table 3-2, p34) But that is with feeding them...

Page 81 seems to say it should be quickly excreted:
Quote:
Short-term studies on humans and animals demonstrate that perchlorate appears to be readily absorbed by the digestive system after oral exposure. Maximum blood levels appear within a few hours after ingestion. Perchlorate is rapidly taken up into the thyroid gland, by an active transport mechanism, and reaches a maximum level in the thyroid in approximately 4 hours in rats. Elimination of perchlorate from the thyroid is also rapid; half-lives of 10–20 hours have been estimated in rats. Perchlorate does not appear to be modified in the body, either by degradation or covalent binding. Perchlorate is rapidly eliminated from the body in the urine with half-lives of approximately 8–12 hours in humans and 10–20 hours in rats.


Pages 82 and beyond has interesting bits, like Table 3-9. Or page 83:
Quote:
Perchlorate binds to bovine and human serum albumin (Carr 1952; Scatchard and Black 1949).
Perchlorate binds only weakly to either of the two binding sites of transferrin (association constants 7 and
35 M) (Harris et al. 1998).


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Urine test showed zero vitamin C. So apparently the perchlorate are keeping the vitamin C from being bioavailable. Does this info help?

My shot in the dark guess would be that vitamin C is being oxidized into Dehydroascorbic acid (DHA) and thus no excess vitamin C is being excreted? I have no idea why this would be the case given that perchlorate is excreted unchanged... being perchlorate is a strong oxidant but only once heated? Though I had read an author's claim that mitochondria can get as hot as a blistering 50°C... maybe hotter... looking for the source now, I think this was it.

So... maybe consider not exercising or doing mentally challenging task for a few days. And relax.

Perhaps consider also supplementing with vitamin E (tocopherol acetate). I'd read claims of a synergy between the two (vitamins C and E). Also more vitamin C probably would be fine but your doc would have better guidance there.

[Edited on 12-2-2021 by andy1988]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
MineMan
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 664
Registered: 29-3-2015
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-2-2021 at 04:48


Quote: Originally posted by andy1988  
Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Hi,

I am looking for advice or procedures on how to remove perchlorates from the body. A toxicity test showed I have very high levels. The doctors procedure has been high dose vitamin C, however that has not remedied the problem.

This document looked good:
Toxicological Profile For Perchlorates
With chronic exposure to perchlorates (25d-6m) in animal models they observed a doubling or tripling of the thyroid size and reduction in serum T3, T4. (Table 3-2, p34) But that is with feeding them...

Page 81 seems to say it should be quickly excreted:
Quote:
Short-term studies on humans and animals demonstrate that perchlorate appears to be readily absorbed by the digestive system after oral exposure. Maximum blood levels appear within a few hours after ingestion. Perchlorate is rapidly taken up into the thyroid gland, by an active transport mechanism, and reaches a maximum level in the thyroid in approximately 4 hours in rats. Elimination of perchlorate from the thyroid is also rapid; half-lives of 10–20 hours have been estimated in rats. Perchlorate does not appear to be modified in the body, either by degradation or covalent binding. Perchlorate is rapidly eliminated from the body in the urine with half-lives of approximately 8–12 hours in humans and 10–20 hours in rats.


Pages 82 and beyond has interesting bits, like Table 3-9. Or page 83:
Quote:
Perchlorate binds to bovine and human serum albumin (Carr 1952; Scatchard and Black 1949).
Perchlorate binds only weakly to either of the two binding sites of transferrin (association constants 7 and
35 M) (Harris et al. 1998).


Quote: Originally posted by MineMan  
Urine test showed zero vitamin C. So apparently the perchlorate are keeping the vitamin C from being bioavailable. Does this info help?

My shot in the dark guess would be that vitamin C is being oxidized into Dehydroascorbic acid (DHA) and thus no excess vitamin C is being excreted? I have no idea why this would be the case given that perchlorate is excreted unchanged... being perchlorate is a strong oxidant but only once heated? Though I had read an author's claim that mitochondria can get as hot as a blistering 50°C... maybe hotter... looking for the source now, I think this was it.

So... maybe consider not exercising or doing mentally challenging task for a few days. And relax.

Perhaps consider also supplementing with vitamin E (tocopherol acetate). I'd read claims of a synergy between the two (vitamins C and E). Also more vitamin C probably would be fine but your doc would have better guidance there.

[Edited on 12-2-2021 by andy1988]


Thank you for the amazing reply! It has been an issue for a lot longer than a few days. I will add E. But it makes me wonder if glutathione can be part of the issue? I could be low in that
View user's profile View All Posts By User
andy1988
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 127
Registered: 11-2-2018
Location: NW Americus ([i]in re[/i] Amerigo Vespucci)
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 12-2-2021 at 05:05


No on the glutathione. From my reading on it is pretty expensive and any non-sublingual tablets are money-grabs. Claims saying it when taken as a supplement doesn't survive or is absorbed well via the GI tract. Doesn't stop people from selling it in that form though. Similar thing with many SAM-e (S-adenosylmethionine) supplements which should be refrigerated for stability. One of my favorite discount supplement sellers is getting sued for that actually, plaintiffs saying that the quantity of SAM-e in their product is substantially lower than labeled.

Vitamins C and E may regenerate glutathione anyway, far more cost effective to just take those unless you enjoy burning cash (my opinion). And on Vitamin E I'd suggest the form of tocopherol acetate and not tocopheryl acetate; the latter is known to be a dermal irritant and has less favorable antioxidant properties, don't bother with it.

[Edited on 12-2-2021 by andy1988]




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Fery
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 505
Registered: 27-8-2019
Location: Czechoslovakia
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 12-2-2021 at 05:48


KClO4 was used as a remedy to suppress thyroid gland in the past (not anymore). Are you long-term exposed to perchlorates professionally (KClO4 fireworks / NH4ClO4 rocket fuel production) ?
What did you say the doctor who examined your blood for perchlorate level and told you the result? If the level was very dangerous he would sent you to dialysis to quickly eliminate it. If some medium intoxication he would probably prescribe you some diuretics to force the elimination (I'm not sure from my head whether furosemide is capable to do that). If only low level intoxication he would prescribe you only some helping remedies and let you body to cope with it. The most important thing is your future - to eliminate your exposure to perchlorates.
It is not fat soluble. Fat soluble substances accumulate in body for longer time and are excreted slower. But ClO4- is water soluble so does not accumulate in fat tissues (brain etc) and is excreted by kidneys. The closest substance used in medicine from a group of anorganic salts is Lithium used for treatment of mania or stabilize mood disorders (Li2CO3) which is also excreted by kidneys.
There is no chemical way to neutralize / destroy ClO4- in any living organism, it could be only excreted. Reducing agents used in chemistry are more toxic than perchlorates. There is no enzyme reducing ClO4- in human body.
Halftime of ClO4- in human body is 6-8 hours so after that time the level is reduced to 50%, twice the time the level is reduced to 1/4, triple the time (1 day) the level is reduced to 1/8 etc. So the problematic is long-term exposure when there is an established equilibrium between its intake and its quick elimination.
The person who could help you more than we is your doctor.




If there is a heaven, it seems not to be materially based. Does chemistry exist there and if yes, how does it look like? Are there good souls well supplied with laboratory equipment, glass, chemicals and information?
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User

  Go To Top