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Author: Subject: Fumaric acid synthesis question
EvlRenne
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[*] posted on 4-3-2021 at 08:11
Fumaric acid synthesis question


Hello everyone,

apparently it is very hard to purchase fumaric acid for me, only 1 "big" supplier in my country is willing to sell it in 7-12 weeks ffs...
Purchasing over ebay is not an option, even though UK's offers sometimes look reasonable, but customs (due England brexit) costs x2 of order itself.
China? I don't trust China, I purchased some carbinols once for 250EUR which were supposed to be solid under 24C and received motor oil.

So I think I need to supply myself.
The most common routes via bromosuccinic acid (super expensive), maleic acid (expensive) are not economically reasonable for me, and I don't want to do route via furfural due related hazards concerns (http://www.orgsyn.org/demo.aspx?prep=CV2P0302).

So in my case the only option is - working with DL-Malic acid.
I did some research, and found a few routes, but without any references to actual experiments.

I want to ask you for some help, if you have an experience with it or know some additional info.

1) Heating of Ma to 150C (is it solvent-less heating? The melting point of Ma is 130C, does it means - dry heat-up -> boil off water -> recrystallize -> enjoy your pure Fa?)
2) Boiling Ma in HCL or HBr (what's % of the acids/what temperature / time?)
3) Via Maleic anhydride (solvent-less dehydration under vacuum + high temp) -> hydrolysis to Maleic acid -> catalytic isomerisation of Maleic acid with CH4N2S  -> Fumaric acid

I'll appreciate any advice.
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Boffis
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[*] posted on 4-3-2021 at 15:25


I thought that fumaric was widely available as a food acidity regulator. It is prepared by the acid induced rearrangement of maleic acid. Have you checked out Ullmanns? Also check out the E number and see if you can buy it under that title. Also check out one of those old organic chemistry books like Richter's. I've just checked out my copy and there are lots of ways to fumaric acid notably via bromosuccinic acid which can be prepared from malic acids and HBr (Richter and most good old-style chemistry books are full of references too, you will have to look up these to get the details. You obviously haven't looked very hard.

Have you tried contacting our very own Mario to just buy the acid?
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NaK
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[*] posted on 5-3-2021 at 03:35


Maybe you can use one of the fumaric acid lookalikes if you just want it for making fumarates. Succinic and maleic acid should work for that as well

[Edited on 5-3-2021 by NaK]
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EvlRenne
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[*] posted on 6-3-2021 at 01:18


Quote: Originally posted by NaK  
Maybe you can use one of the fumaric acid lookalikes if you just want it for making fumarates. Succinic and maleic acid should work for that as well

[Edited on 5-3-2021 by NaK]


I was thinking about that as well, but I need to have a hydrophobic salt which is safe for consumption.
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wg48temp9
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[*] posted on 6-3-2021 at 04:40


minerals-water.ltd a UK supplier sells it on ebay uk and in their internet shop.
£20 for 250g free postage.




I am wg48 but not on my usual pc hence the temp handle.
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EvlRenne
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[*] posted on 6-3-2021 at 12:15


Quote: Originally posted by wg48temp9  
minerals-water.ltd a UK supplier sells it on ebay uk and in their internet shop.
£20 for 250g free postage.

£20 for 250g + £20 shipping + customs charge

[Edited on 6-3-2021 by EvlRenne]
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Fery
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[*] posted on 8-3-2021 at 14:32


https://shop.es-drei.de/saeuren/13810/fumarsaeure-min.-99-5?...
99,5% purity, 1 kg 25 EUR




If there is a heaven, it seems not to be materially based. Does chemistry exist there and if yes, how does it look like? Are there good souls well supplied with laboratory equipment, glass, chemicals and information?
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EvlRenne
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[*] posted on 9-3-2021 at 11:46


Quote: Originally posted by Fery  
https://shop.es-drei.de/saeuren/13810/fumarsaeure-min.-99-5?...
99,5% purity, 1 kg 25 EUR


Thanks a lot! I'll contact them, if they sell to individuals - it's a holy grail, already found quite a lot of compounds I am interesting in.
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Fery
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[*] posted on 9-3-2021 at 12:03


Yes they sell, recently I've bought from them. If you have VAT ID then more reagents in eshop than when registering as an individual.



If there is a heaven, it seems not to be materially based. Does chemistry exist there and if yes, how does it look like? Are there good souls well supplied with laboratory equipment, glass, chemicals and information?
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Fery
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[*] posted on 15-3-2021 at 07:48


I've just received 250 g of fumaric acid (min. 99,5%) among a lot of other reagents. This order was few days before this thread was created.
https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=98...




If there is a heaven, it seems not to be materially based. Does chemistry exist there and if yes, how does it look like? Are there good souls well supplied with laboratory equipment, glass, chemicals and information?
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