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Author: Subject: ClO2 from HCl + NaClO2 ... for medical purposes
chief
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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 02:55
ClO2 from HCl + NaClO2 ... for medical purposes


Something different ... this time:

A guy came to me ... asked me for 5% HCl ...

==> He wants to mix it with some NaClO2-solution he has bought from the internet ... for oral ingestion ... :o

The effect would be, as he "explained" ... that the solution would liberate 1 mg/hour of ClO2 ... or something like that ...

===============

Now I wonder ... :o:o:o

==> It might be not completely from another planet ... since I myself have read some medical report of treating malaria with hypochlorite-based chlorination-solution ... under circumstances where workers had no other medication available ... ... ; the effects were: It worked ...

Also googeling the sodium-chlorite gives a lot of pages where they sell the stuff ... apparently as alternative-medication ... for a lot of bucks ...

========================

So: Has anyone ever heard of such ? Will the guy go unharmed if he really prepares the solution (didn't give him any HCl ... but advised him where to buy it legally ...) and ingests it ?
==> The background is: His mother has cancer with some probability of mortality ... and he tries helping her

Just to spare the discussions: He's going for it anyway ... ; if not for it ... then maybe for something more dangerous or more useless ... ...

[Edited on 8-3-2011 by chief]

[Edited on 8-3-2011 by chief]
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woelen
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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 03:11


This is the so-called MMS hype. Indeed, many suppliers sell NaClO2, some suppliers do this for high prices, others for decent prices. Also on eBay.

I myself think that all this MMS-stuff is bullshit. Ingesting an oxidizing agent like NaClO2 or ClO2 (derived from this by adding acid) sounds like something really bad. Many strong oxidizing agents are known to increase the risk of cancer, due to (slow) damage to cell tussue and cell-DNA.

Most MMS-sites recommend low doses, in the order of tens of mg of NaClO2, combined with citric acid or orange juice for making the ClO2. I think that such doses are not immediately bad, but in the long run they may harm.

If your friend is talking about solutions of a few percents and using HCl for making ClO2, then I think that there is an immediate danger and I would STRONGLY advice against doing this!

I wish your friend and his mother all strength in dealing with the cancer, but please tell them that ingesting NaClO2 and/or ClO2 is not the way to go. I even advice against small doses, but I certainly advice against using high doses and using HCl as acid for making the ClO2.

--------------------------

There also applies another warning for NaClO2. If strong acid like 5% HCl is added to the solid, or to concentrated solutions, then ClO2 is formed in sufficiently high concentrations to introduce an explosion risk. I myself recently purchased solid NaClO2 from eBay (sold for the purpose of making MMS) and did some experiments with this and I must say, that this is quite dangerous stuff when used in conjunction with strong acids. I am not really afraid that your friend will blow up himself, but still I do want to mention this risk.

[Edited on 8-3-11 by woelen]




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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 04:50


There is a similar quack therapy using hydrogen peroxide.
Those of us with long memories will remember laetrile;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amygdalin
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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 05:29


Leaving aside the therapeutic value... how does this equation balance? Don't you need chlorate (not chlorite) to liberate ClO2? Or is there some disproportionation going on in between?
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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 05:46


It is a slightly complicated reaction;

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chlorine_dioxide#Preparation
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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 09:01


A safer method might be to react NaClO3 with oxalic acid and make a saturated solution of ClO2 in water. At one time this was sold as mouthwash I think.
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[*] posted on 8-3-2011 at 12:15


Quote: Originally posted by bbartlog  
Leaving aside the therapeutic value... how does this equation balance? Don't you need chlorate (not chlorite) to liberate ClO2? Or is there some disproportionation going on in between?

Chlorate can be used to make a mix of Cl2 and ClO2, but chlorite makes pure ClO2 without Cl2. For this reason, the eBay sellers don't sell chlorate, but chlorite.

Actually, pure ClO2 is quite benign when inhaled or ingested, compared to chlorine. ClO2, prepared from chlorate and HCl has an intensely choking smell and will kill you even at low concentration, due to the chlorine content. ClO2 made from NaClO2 and HCl has a somewhat spicy and caramel like smell and is not choking like Cl2.

I did quite a few experiments with ClO2 and it an interesting compound. For that reason I purchased the NaClO2. All that MMS-stuff, however, is irresponsible bullshit, which may lead to damage of the people who use it.

Some experiments with ClO2:

http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/clo2/index.h...
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/ClO2_propert...
http://woelen.homescience.net/science/chem/exps/NH3_ClO2/ind...




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