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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 14:56
Another distillation setup, questions


Still trying to think of a way to acquire a couple hundred mL’s of solvent with the least cost / headache

Saw this distillation kit for $26 USD!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353428654117?_trkparms=aid%3D111000...


Now, my questions are, could this kit be used to distill Coleman’s camp fuel without the naphtha dissolving the rubber hose which connects the distillation flask to the condenser?

It is a fairly basic setup, and it includes a stand, for well below the price of the ground glass variation.
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 14:58


Also,

What would I need as far as a water pump is concerned, I’m thinking about running my distillation outside away from the municipal hookups, so, if I remember correctly,

Portable battery powered shower head was the way to go?

Is there anything less expensive way of pumping the water for my condenser ?

What if I filled my condenser full of water and froze it? Would this provide sufficient cooling to collect about 150-200mL?

[Edited on 5/23/2021 by Yttrium2]
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Sulaiman
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 15:36


I would not freeze water in glassware for fear of breaking the glass due to the expansion when water freezes.
Better choices are:
. A water container (bucket, bag etc.) higher than the condenser outlet,
refill the bucket as required.
siphon water via the condenser.
. A usb water pump and a usb power pack recirculating water to/from a bucket, changing the water as required as it heats up.

Latex tubing will be attacked by many solvents, use pvc or silicone tubing.

I would soon get frustrated by the distillation kit that you linked to because I'm used to ground joint glassware,
I can see the cost saving with this kit, but.....




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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 15:47


I just saw the usb water pumps, very neat, not as bulky as the shower head.

What kind of power bank would I need to run the pump for, 3 hours?

If I left an air gap, the ice wouldn’t crack the condenser, would it??

It’s akin to having some water in a glass bottle and freezing it with the lid open, won’t there be room for expanansion?

Thanks for the input,
Not sure about the bag/bucket idea,

I have thought about it before though, I could raise one bag, and then let it drain, then lower that bag and have it drain into another..

Would it matter where the water outlet / inlet would be for this idea? It might be easier to have the inlet at the top of the condenser, see what I’m saying?


Anyways, I like the idea of the usb pump
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 16:58


How good an idea is distilling white gasoline with an open flame with a disty rig that uses a rubber hose to carry the solvent vapors to the condenser?

I'll wager a not very good idea..................




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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 17:04


Does anyone have any more information on the water pumps, what kind of power bank would I need and would it produce enough head?


And what about for regular submersible pumps that hook up to municipalities
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 17:35


I would not use that kit for anything, it is cheap and not designed for organic work. There are find 24/40 kits both from the US and China that are a little more, but safe to use. I would not use a flame to heat gasoline, it just seems like a terrible idea, you can use a water bath with a hotplate or even just pour some boiuling water from a kettle into a water bath. And an aspirator will work fine, and won;t pollute the water enough to matter. Most water rpumps cannot get the flow to create a useful vacuum. If you do it outside, you could drain the water somewhere to evaporate if you are worried. That would be muich safer also.

A battery opperated pump will not likely work enough to matter, people have tried it before on here. Even simple fish water pumps will not get much of a vacuum, you need 4 g/min at 60 psi to get a decent vacuum.
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[*] posted on 23-5-2021 at 17:55


This post is a recurrent "theme" with yttrium.



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karlos³
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[*] posted on 24-5-2021 at 06:44


I can't get it why he always wants to use the most unsuitable most ghettoish sort of distillation equipment which is absolutely wrong for his purpose?


Just go to deschem and buy a cheap ground glass distillation kit, its thirty bucks but it is suitable for your purpose.

Does yttrium2 even read what we say, ever?
Or is he high again?
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[*] posted on 24-5-2021 at 07:28


I have to agree with the opinion that open flame, latex tubing and distilling petroleum products is a poor choice, to put it mildly.

However, I've used a pump like this
https://www.ebay.com/itm/293252357000?_ul=MY
USD 2.48, usb powered, maybe three hours from a 5000mAh power bank/pack.
It was adequate for 500ml ethanol etc. distillations. (24/29 glassware)
eg rated=3m (at flow=0) and 3 l/min (at 0m lift/head)
should be ok for 1 l/min at 1m lift
1 l/min = 16.7 g/sec
16.7 x (specific heat capacity of water) x (temperature rise) = 700W
(for condenser outlet 10C higher than inlet)




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[*] posted on 24-5-2021 at 13:33


Quote: Originally posted by karlos³  


Does yttrium2 even read what we say, ever?
Or is he high again?


I am glad you mention this because this has been my thought over the last dozen or so topics he created.
Kinda feels like he is exploiting the willingness of others to help and post the same question again.
At this rate he will be at 2k posts soon only to contaminate the board.
Or perhaps, indeed too much of the green stuff.


[Edited on 24-5-2021 by Belowzero]
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 02:16


this threads harmless overall, and this just might be the only social interaction he gets and everybody needs a bit so there is that, y'all remember when he was "shopping" for a retort?

For the newer members, hes been advised to buy a >$40 24/29 disty kit probably several hundred times by now.....

Yttrium, I'd gift you one, but then what the heck wouldja do to keep us on our toes?


[Edited on 5-25-2021 by arkoma]




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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 10:11


Deschem is down
Nanshin doesn’t have there stock listed.and are probably down as well,

I like to save $

But if Dr.Bob is against it, I’ll listen.

Probably would of employed a water bath, but just toying with the idea.

Interlabglassware seems to make quality stuff, they are a bit more. I’d go with other sellers…

This is the type of kit I fancy
https://www.ebay.com/itm/131156736530?_trkparms=aid%3D111000...


Nanshin used to have one for about 60 bucks, I like how the 3 way distillation adapter accepts the thermometer coupling, and isn’t 1 piece

Only thing id do is add a 24/29 400mm Liebig condenser, interlabglassware doesn’t have any listed for sale..


Also, I like these
https://www.amazon.com/Deschem-Distillation-Apparatus-Distil...

But in 24/29
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 10:15


I’ll have to wait till I’m off probation to get a distillation apparatus,

But a one can dream right?

What I’d really like is some sort of a box that I can repurpose into a fume hood. — one that’s not too big, or too small

Please see the fume hood construction thread for my post

I like aromas build :D

[Edited on 5/25/2021 by Yttrium2]
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karlos³
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 10:16


Don't forget if you want to distill organic solvents, you likely require a stirrer, boiling stones are not nearly as good in comparison.
And you want to distill alkanes from naphtha, those tend to bump heavily if not stirred...
And I mean HEAVILY, like, bumping their connections off, even with clamps(sp? right word?).

Deschem isn't down, I received an order while they were still on vacation.
Just buy from them, you get even tubing and some pH-paper with it.

[Edited on 25-5-2021 by karlos³]
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 10:20


Oh yeah right, not sure how I’ll heat and stir a round bottomed flask.

If I have the rbf in a water bath/glass bowl, can I still stir?
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 11:38


You need a heat resistant stir plate, and I don't think you can build that yourself.
The heatplate/stirrer combo is one of the greatest and most important tools for the homelab, and I think you just have to bite into the sour apple and order one.

This is where you can attempt to save money, not on the distillation kit.
Try to get an used one under 100$, if you are quick maybe even less than 80$.

But you really need to be quick, there is no time to ask us all if that one is suitable, you have to be fast on your own and keep track of it.
In general, if it can stir and heat, it will suffice for most things... you don't need a top piece of equipment, just one thats working.
And when you got that piece of equipment, everything else is just a piece of cake.
With a heated magstirrer in possession, the world of chemistry became immediately much wider to access by yourself ;)

Maybe arkie will still gift you a distillation kit if you already got a stirrer to proudly present us? :P
I think he would, if you just listen to our advide ;)
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 11:58


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  

If I have the rbf in a water bath/glass bowl, can I still stir?


Yes, you can.
I used an ordinal heat-resistant kitchen vessel as water bath. Many people are using crystallizing dishes as the container for heating medium (or a beaker if the flask is small). You can also make a hot air bath if you will cover your flask and plate under a layer of aluminium foil and making a kind of skirt. It may be not ideal solution when working with something that is not compatible with aluminium.
I found recently a nice and small kitchen pot made from aluminium without any steel layer (which makes stirring very hard or even impossible). One of the best buys this year.
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 12:00


I here you, but am still unsure if it’s be able to stir with a glass bowl atop of it and a rbf submerged into the bath, can anyone answer this question?

I’d prolly go with one of these, which has been recommended against, though I’m not sure why

https://www.ebay.com/itm/201854894893?epid=26018567306&_...




Or maybe even one of these

https://www.ebay.com/itm/263416977723?_trkparms=aid%3D555023...

Which is best between these two, and can someone answer my above question?







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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 12:09


Have you taken any physics lessons and get some basic knowledge about magnetic field?
If not, try with a magnet and glass taken from your kitchen or read my post once again.
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 12:34


Quote: Originally posted by Oxy  
Have you taken any physics lessons and get some basic knowledge about magnetic field?
If not, try with a magnet and glass taken from your kitchen or read my post once again.


I didn’t see your post before posting mine,

I see, I knew a magnet would permeate through glass, but wasn’t sure about how far..

[Edited on 5/25/2021 by Yttrium2]
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 12:57


Stainless stell also is permeable for magnets.
But if you use a FBF directly on the hotplate, you don't actually require a bath really.

There are some distillation kits out there who come with both a RBF and FBF, so that might be even better for you?

As for the stirrer, just get one that you can afford, you will see if its sufficient, and if not, it will still be able to heat and stir... maybe heats up slower though or such, but it will work still.
And if not, you still have some level of guarantee from ebay(pay with paypal and customer protection), so you really don't need to worry much.
Just look for what your budget allows for.
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[*] posted on 25-5-2021 at 19:37


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  


This is the type of kit I fancy
https://www.ebay.com/itm/131156736530?_trkparms=aid%3D111000...

Also, I like these
https://www.amazon.com/Deschem-Distillation-Apparatus-Distil...
One reason that people dis-recommend those hotplate stirrers is their relatively low heating power,
180W and 200W respectively.

Although I now have a 500ml and a 5000ml heating mantle,
for years I managed very well with a cheap domestic hotplate like this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/194035851829?hash=item2d2d702235:...
when it died I found a cheap used dual unit similar to this
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/294190678849?hash=item447f218341:...

I had a go at adding magnetic stirring to my diy 500ml heating mantle and gave up because overhead stirring was easier to diy,
but for years I 'survived' without stirring.
STIRRING IS ESSENTIAL FOR SERIOUS WORK
but most procedures at my level work ok without it.
__________________________________________________________
When I started, I completely underestimated the cost of a distillation setup :
Distillation glassware - RBFs, joints, condenser, thermometer etc.
is only a small part of the cost, also required are ;
Stands and clamps - consider diy stands
Heating & Stirring - many options
Workspace - fume cupboard or well ventilated workbench or weather shielded outdoor workspace
Firefighting equipment - fire extinguisher, fire blanket, hosepipe etc.
Cooling water - tap/faucet, recirculating pump etc.
PPE - goggles at least
ALL OF THE ABOVE ARE REQUIRED
You will probably need extras such as
Filtration - gravity if patient, vacuum otherwise
Addition - a pressure equalised addition funnel is almost essential
Separation - a separation funnel would be good (I've not got one yet)
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[*] posted on 26-5-2021 at 02:03


Quote: Originally posted by Yttrium2  
Still trying to think of a way to acquire a couple hundred mL’s of solvent with the least cost / headache

Saw this distillation kit for $26 USD!
https://www.ebay.com/itm/353428654117?_trkparms=aid%3D111000...


Now, my questions are, could this kit be used to distill Coleman’s camp fuel without the naphtha dissolving the rubber hose which connects the distillation flask to the condenser?

It is a fairly basic setup, and it includes a stand, for well below the price of the ground glass variation.


What are you looking for specifically? Hexane? Heptane? Pentane? Naptha? Or are you talking about the EtOH based fuel? Either way, we'd be happy to supply you with the solvent itself for the same or less than what it'll cost you for the setup and fuel. Not to mention it'll certainly be a better product than what you could distill using a kit like that, especially if you're trying to distill out a specific fraction of the "white gas" type Coleman fuel.
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[*] posted on 26-5-2021 at 02:18


Quote: Originally posted by Sulaiman  
One reason that people dis-recommend those hotplate stirrers is their relatively low heating power,180W and 200W respectively.


I own 500W and the heating power is too low.

@Yttrium, do not buy the cheapest setup available. Buy something which have reasonable quality and price. This setup can last you for years of work. It's better to buy just once than throwing the money away.
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