Mateo_swe
National Hazard
Posts: 505
Registered: 24-8-2019
Location: Within EU
Member Is Offline
|
|
Different molecular sieves question
Molecular sieves are used to dry solvents and chemicals.
I read 3A Molecular sieves are used to dry ethanol to absolute ethanol.
4A Molecular sieves are used to dry solvents for example DMSO.
The number indicates poresize in the sieves, how big molecules it can bind to if i understood this correct.
But what i dont understand is, if 3A molecular sieves can dry ethanol, that is bind the water molecules to the sieves, why is 4A molecular sieves used
when drying solvents?
The water molecules are small enough to bind to 3A sieves, why is 4A sieves used to dry (bind the water molecules) in solvents like DMSO?
Does anybody know?
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3022
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
4A sieves are cheaper because 3A sieves are made from 4A sieves.
|
|
|
S.C. Wack
bibliomaster
Posts: 2419
Registered: 7-5-2004
Location: Cornworld, Central USA
Member Is Offline
Mood: Enhanced
|
|
One would think so but 3A is cheaper at Aldrich. 4A is the original so it's going to be mentioned, bought, and used often. 4A is said to have a
slightly larger capacity, but this does not necessarily mean better drying.
|
|
|
Oxy
Hazard to Others
Posts: 140
Registered: 1-12-2020
Member Is Offline
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by Mateo_swe  |
But what i dont understand is, if 3A molecular sieves can dry ethanol, that is bind the water molecules to the sieves, why is 4A molecular sieves used
when drying solvents?
The water molecules are small enough to bind to 3A sieves, why is 4A sieves used to dry (bind the water molecules) in solvents like DMSO?
Does anybody know? |
4A sieves have larger holes which can trap larger molecules so they remove not only water but also other compounds.
|
|
|
Mateo_swe
National Hazard
Posts: 505
Registered: 24-8-2019
Location: Within EU
Member Is Offline
|
|
OK.
So one could also use 4A molecular sieves to dry 96% ethanol to get absolute ethanol, is that correct?
Or would the ethanol molecule also get bound to the 4A sieves like the water molecules, making it not work?
|
|
|
macckone
International Hazard
Posts: 2159
Registered: 1-3-2013
Location: Over a mile high
Member Is Offline
Mood: Electrical
|
|
No 4A sieves will not preferentially absorb water from ethanol.
Ethanol is small enough to fit in a 4A sieve.
3A sieves will absorb water but not ethanol.
To some extent they will also absorb methanol but it is right at the pore size so you can still use 3A to dry methanol.
But with methanol, it is not as efficient and your product is not as dry.
Also molecular sieves work best at removing more polar compounds from less polar compounds.
|
|
|
Tsjerk
International Hazard
Posts: 3022
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline
Mood: Mood
|
|
To dry 96% ethanol you should first use a drying agent like MgSO4, to get it to 99%+
You can do it with just sieves, but you will need more and solvents tend to stick and you will have a relatively large mechanical loss.
Distilling off ethanol from a drying agent that doesn't release water at that temperature is best, after that you can use sieves to store that ethanol
over, to remove the last water while standing.
CaO will give anhydrous ethanol after some reflux and distillation. Also magnesium works great, that will react with ethanol to give the etoxide. When
distilling you will get dry ethanol.
[Edited on 18-8-2021 by Tsjerk]
|
|
|
Syn the Sizer
National Hazard
Posts: 591
Registered: 12-11-2019
Location: Canada
Member Is Offline
|
|
My understanding is what Oxy said, the different pore size is used to also absorb impurities from the solvent, like lets just say hypothetically your
DMSO is also contaminated with ethanol, sure you could distill it off but just drop in the larger sieves and you take care of both.
Ethanol may have been a bad example just because of its low bp, but that is the idea.
As well I am sure you would end up with absolute ethanol using 4A sieves but also lose a ton of ethanol with the water in the sieves.
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
