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ATPfactory
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[*] posted on 10-9-2021 at 16:36
magnesium from soda cans


I was googling for new projects and I somehow landed on the composition of soda cans. Apparently there is 4,5%Mg 95,2%Al and 0,35%Mn in the top and bottom of the can and 1%Mg 97,8%Al and 1,2%Mn in the rest of the can.
So I thought, ok cool maybe I can extract the magnesium somehow.

The first few results from google told me that NaOH can dissolve aluminum but that it won't dissolve magnesium and manganese.

Does anyone know if this would actually work?
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Yttrium2
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[*] posted on 10-9-2021 at 19:21


https://m.youtube.com/

watch?v=b0BcNodwK3A

[Edit by mod]
Link broken. Irrelevant.
Do not do this again, Yttrium. This is a violation of a recent mod warning. Banned for a week.
[/Moderation]

[Edited on 11-9-2021 by j_sum1]
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Fulmen
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[*] posted on 11-9-2021 at 02:41


Sorry, but that won't work. Magnesium reacts with water, so does aluminum. The NaOH just breaks down the Al's protective oxide coating, allowing it to react with water forming oxides and hydrogen.



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night429
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[*] posted on 11-9-2021 at 09:09


Quote: Originally posted by Fulmen  
Sorry, but that won't work. Magnesium reacts with water, so does aluminum. The NaOH just breaks down the Al's protective oxide coating, allowing it to react with water forming oxides and hydrogen.


Isn't aluminum hydroxide/oxide amphoteric, though? It would form water-soluble sodium aluminate in the presence of excess NaOH. Manganese and magnesium would form insoluble non-amphoteric hydroxides.




Is an almond a polymer?
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Antiswat
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[*] posted on 19-9-2021 at 01:04


you could try burning it in nitrogen atmosphere, magnesium forms magnesium nitride, not sure about aluminium.

it seems solubility data for magnesium/aluminium salts are quite similar, you might have to find some data on seperating the salts with ethanol or similar solvent, acetone maybe
my take is if you have a practical purpose it just isnt worth it

NaOH with aluminium forms sodium aluminate
dont know about magnesium and NaOH
however, you could precipitate out the hydroxides, fry it in oven to acquire aluminium/magnesium oxide
the magnesium oxide should be rather soluble in acids where aluminium oxide is quite resistant

magnesium oxide as supplement barely has 20% bioavailability and theres HCl in stomach

aluminium carbonate cant exist, it decomposes into i believe aluminium oxide, but maybe hydroxide
magnesium carbonate can exist, and it reacts readily with acids




~25 drops = 1mL @dH2O viscocity - STP
Truth is ever growing - but without context theres barely any such.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Solubility_table
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[*] posted on 23-9-2021 at 08:16


short answer is this proposal won't work.

longer answer is that if you want magnesium ions, just buy epsom salt or milk of magnesia.
magnesium ribbon is not 'cheap' but it is relatively easily available.

you can also buy magnesium anodes which are generally AZ31 - 97% mg, 3% al, 1% zn, 0.2% mn.
yes, I know that doesn't add up to 100%.
https://www.azom.com/article.aspx?ArticleID=6707


Depending on your application AZ31 may or may not be usable.
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MidLifeChemist
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[*] posted on 23-9-2021 at 14:00


short answer - this won't work. long answer, magnesium ribbon is very cheap to buy.
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vmelkon
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[*] posted on 24-10-2021 at 18:32


Quote: Originally posted by ATPfactory  
I was googling for new projects and I somehow landed on the composition of soda cans. Apparently there is 4,5%Mg 95,2%Al and 0,35%Mn in the top and bottom of the can and 1%Mg 97,8%Al and 1,2%Mn in the rest of the can.
So I thought, ok cool maybe I can extract the magnesium somehow.

The first few results from google told me that NaOH can dissolve aluminum but that it won't dissolve magnesium and manganese.

Does anyone know if this would actually work?


I don't know much about manganese but if you try this, the magnesium would react with the water and form Mg(OH)2. The Mn might end up as a fine powder.
I tried something similar except I used another alloy:
tin + silver + copper where silver and copper is <2% and put this in HCl.
You end up with a tin chloride solution and powdered copper and silver.

I am not sure but perhaps if you put this in HCl, you will get the chlorides.
Adding some NaOH might precipitate Al(OH)2, Mg(OH)2, Mn(OH)2.
I think heating the solution would dissolve Mg(OH)2 and then filter.







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metalresearcher
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[*] posted on 24-10-2021 at 23:47


Quote: Originally posted by vmelkon  
Quote: Originally posted by ATPfactory  
I was googling for new projects and I somehow landed on the composition of soda cans. Apparently there is 4,5%Mg 95,2%Al and 0,35%Mn in the top and bottom of the can and 1%Mg 97,8%Al and 1,2%Mn in the rest of the can.
So I thought, ok cool maybe I can extract the magnesium somehow.

The first few results from google told me that NaOH can dissolve aluminum but that it won't dissolve magnesium and manganese.

Does anyone know if this would actually work?


I don't know much about manganese but if you try this, the magnesium would react with the water and form Mg(OH)2. The Mn might end up as a fine powder.
I tried something similar except I used another alloy:
tin + silver + copper where silver and copper is <2% and put this in HCl.You end up with a tin chloride solution and powdered copper and silver.

I am not sure but perhaps if you put this in HCl, you will get the chlorides.
Adding some NaOH might precipitate Al(OH)2, Mg(OH)2, Mn(OH)2.
I think heating the solution would dissolve Mg(OH)2 and then filter.


Sn + Ag + Cu are much 'nobler' metals than Al and Mg, so this is not a fair comparison.
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[*] posted on 25-10-2021 at 03:45


Quote: Originally posted by vmelkon  

I think heating the solution would dissolve Mg(OH)2


I don't.
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macckone
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[*] posted on 25-10-2021 at 08:09


MidlifeChemist,

Try buying a kilo of magnessium ribbon and tell me how cheap it is.
Buying it in bulk from rotometals is about $144 / kg plus shipping.
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Morgan
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[*] posted on 25-10-2021 at 11:19


Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
MidlifeChemist,

Try buying a kilo of magnessium ribbon and tell me how cheap it is.
Buying it in bulk from rotometals is about $144 / kg plus shipping.


Ebay has this listing.
Magnesium Rods metal Ingot High Purity 99.95% - 915mm x 35mm $93/Rod ($27/lb)
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[*] posted on 25-10-2021 at 11:32


Quote: Originally posted by macckone  
MidlifeChemist,

Try buying a kilo of magnessium ribbon and tell me how cheap it is.
Buying it in bulk from rotometals is about $144 / kg plus shipping.

Quote: Originally posted by ATPfactory  
... Apparently there is 4,5%Mg 95,2%Al and 0,35%Mn in the top and bottom of the can...


How much would 22Kg of scrap cans cost?
Then there's the other costs.


I can buy Mg ingots at about£20 per kilo on eBay.
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