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Ankit1612
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Detonating potassium chlorate explosive mixture.
Can I detonate potassium chlorate, AL powder, sulphur mixture?
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Sir_Gawain
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Yes. Try shaking or stirring it.
“Alchemy is trying to turn things yellow; chemistry is trying to avoid things turning yellow.” -Tom deP.
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B(a)P
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Yes, though mixing chlorate and sulfur is a bad idea. I would not recommend pursuing this mixture as a potential energetic material.
I am not a mod, but I would think asking, 'does this mixture detonate' is probably not in keeping with what this forum is about and will be unlikely
to get you much of a responce.
There is a huge amount of information freely available on chlorates and energetic mixtures including chlorates, including plenty on this forum. Maybe
start by reading up on some potential options then ask some more informed questions. Best of luck with it!
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woelen
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I certainly would not make more than a few tens of mg of a mix of KClO3, S and Al. Such mixes are very sensitive to friction and may ignite, just
while mixing the chemicals. Too many people lost fingers (or more) by carelessly playing around with chlorates. Adding metals to the mix makes things
even worse, because, when the mix sets off and metal powder is in the mix, then the reaction will be MUCH hotter and much more violent, than with just
sulfur and KClO3. And even the latter simple mix already is so violent! Also, do not store mixes of KClO3, which also contain sulfur! On storage,
especially, when a slight amount of humidity and air can enter the mix, the mix can become even more sensitive, due to formation of sulfur-containing
acidic compounds, which can be formed on aerial oxidation of sulfur under somewhat humid conditions.
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MadHatter
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Chlorate
B(a)P and woelen are correct. Chlorates are notoriously reactive with many things
but especially sulfur and phosphorus. If you can obtain it use perchlorates instead.
Fireworks industries no longer use chlorates except in things like poppers and snap
caps for that very reason. Perchlorates are much safer to work with.
[Edited on 2023/1/23 by MadHatter]
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ManyInterests
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The use of chlorates in explosives and energetics use is quite well documented. But first... DO NOT MIX SULFUR AND CHLORATES! This isn't a joke. They
will blow up in your face.
Adding aluminum powder to chlorates will act as a powerful oxidizer/fuel combo. From what I've read on cheddites, adding a bit (around 5% of the total
volume I believe) to a 90%/10% ratio of chlorates and petroleum jelly will increase its power, or according to some other member here, a 2/3 chlorate
to 1/3 aluminum mixture will also work.
You'll need at least a No. 8 detonator or equivalent to make it go off if you're looking for a detonation.
But whatever you do, please do not mix sulfur/sulphur with chlorates, it could well be the last thing you do.
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Sir_Gawain
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Actually, it's even worse than that. Sulfur can be acidic enough to spontaneously detonate the mixture. Also, I believe this mixture is much more
powerful than Armstrong's mixture. A very small amount can shatter a concrete block that is tipped over onto it.
“Alchemy is trying to turn things yellow; chemistry is trying to avoid things turning yellow.” -Tom deP.
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ManyInterests
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Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain  | | Actually, it's even worse than that. Sulfur can be acidic enough to spontaneously detonate the mixture. Also, I believe this mixture is much more
powerful than Armstrong's mixture. A very small amount can shatter a concrete block that is tipped over onto it. |
Yes, thank you. Safety matches (that use both sulfur and chlorates) have a glue binder that holds them apart. This is why ground up matches don't go
off. But outside of that it is a really bad idea.
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Bert
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Potassium chlorate is mostly reserved these days for uses where one WANTS high sensitivity to impact or friction- Percussion primers, friction
igniters, matches and similar flame initiating devices.
One other fairly large scale use of Potassium chlorate in Pyrotechnics is the fuel/oxidizer/coolling diluants mixture used to vaporize colored dyes in
smoke devices WITHOUT BURNING THEM UP. It suits THAT use because it can sustain a burn at rather low temperatures when used with low temperature fuels
such as lactose.
A LOT of 19th century "patent explosives" for blasting/mining were tried with chlorate mixtures- They had too many drawbacks for continuing commercial
use, the cheddites came closest.
Some have used potassium chlorate instead of perchlorate in whistle mixes with fuels like sodium benzoate or salycilate- These DO whistle. And they
also transition to a true detonation far too easily if shocked. The old fashioned whistle mixes with gallic acid and Potassium chlorate were quite
sensitive too, I advise against playing with ALL of the chlorate oxidized whistle mixes.
At least one person on this forum had MELTED whistle fixes such as these and claimed the oxidizer would DISSOLVE in the melted fuel, producing a
dense(ish) solid high explosive mixture when allowed to solidify after. I never had the courage to try that process and I reccomend you don't either.
The old flash cracker powder mixtures with aluminum, sulfur and chlorate killed a LOT of factory workers in the late 1800s to early 1900s AND STILL DO
in places people occasionally try to use them commercially (India, Phillipines, some Asian countries).
The "dark report" mixtures such as chlorate + antimony sulfide or powdered have a limited use for things such as breaking a charcoal crossette comet
without a bright distracting flash, a person who taught me pyrotechnics early on did (and does) make them this way. He also carries a pocket watch
instead of wearing a wrist watch and enjoys fine double barrel shotguns rather than auto loaders or pumps-
I've made historical colored star mixes with chlorate in small quantities out of curiosity. They did work as advertised, some were even quite nicely
colored, virtually all of them were far too shock and/or friction sensitive for me to go further.
[Edited on 1-24-2023 by Bert]
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Herr Haber
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| Quote: Originally posted by Sir_Gawain | | Actually, it's even worse than that. Sulfur can be acidic enough to spontaneously detonate the mixture. Also, I believe this mixture is much more
powerful than Armstrong's mixture. A very small amount can shatter a concrete block that is tipped over onto it. |
It's only the old flash powder that China used for many years but is now banned. It's far from being as dangerous as Armstrong's mixture.
Potassium chlorate can be mixed with a lot of much safer fuels and get a full-ish detonation. Vaseline is one of them.
Look up Cheddite and Sprengel explosives.
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by Herr Haber]
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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Ankit1612
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All I want to know is, can I detonate potassium chlorate flash powder with PETN booster. And if yes, then how powerful explosion it will be?
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by Ankit1612]
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Alkoholvergiftung
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Pyrodialyt is an good example of an Chlorate explosive. 85% potassiumchlorate 15% resin (natural). Fine powdered (seperate) an mixed in rotating drums
moistet with alcohol (moist not doughy consistenc). It was an save explosive only with an blastingcap to detonate. negative was it was only 1,9 times
stronger than blackpowder.
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by Alkoholvergiftung]
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Raid
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You will have to sensitize the Chlorate comp before use, the most common way is to use Sulfur. I have done this myself without any issues and adding
Sulfur does not seem to make it super sensitive or anything just make sure to keep the product VERY dry to avoid H2SO4 building up. that could cause
extreme sensitivity and even spontaneous detonation.
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Herr Haber
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ankit1612 | All I want to know is, can I detonate potassium chlorate flash powder with PETN booster. And if yes, then how powerful explosion it will be?
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by Ankit1612] |
Sure you can !
But you really shouldnt. Or if you do, use way less Al and maybe no S than in a normal flash composition.
You should go for a safer fuel especially since I imagine the main charge will not be small.
Look at Rack a Rock composition and how it was used during NY construction.
Consider chlorate and vaseline. Keep it simple & keep your limbs attached.
Just gently heat vaseline then incorporate the chlorate while mixing.
Those compositions are not easy to set off so a minimum of confinement is needed (that's why a hole in a rock is perfect) but if you have a good
initiator such as PETN then dont bother doing something super exotic that is more dangerous than necessary.
@Pinkboii: I'm suggesting the exact opposite. He doesnt need to sensitize a composition. Chlorates decompose very easily already and even much harder
to detonate perchlorate compositons were used in WW1 grenades / mortar rounds with what I'd call inadequate initiation.
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by Herr Haber]
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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Sir_Gawain
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ankit1612 | All I want to know is, can I detonate potassium chlorate flash powder with PETN booster. And if yes, then how powerful explosion it will be?
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by Ankit1612] |
Yes, but it's not a safe composition. Try Cheddite O, a 90/10 mixture of chlorate and vaseline or mineral oil. I detonated 25g with a 1g ETN blasting
cap and it completely severed a 6 inch tree. The chlorate has to be very finely powdered and the cheddite kneaded thoroughly. It's far less sensitive
than any chorate/sulfur mix.
“Alchemy is trying to turn things yellow; chemistry is trying to avoid things turning yellow.” -Tom deP.
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Raid
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@Herr Harbor, Well... Sure its better not to use and sulfur compounds to sensitize this but from personal experience, I have had no success detonating
this without adding sulfur. All its really comes down to is if you care about your personal safety or not. As a side note if he did use sulfur to
sensitize the flash powder i would recommend storing it in a pill bottle or something that is airtight and plastic. DONT use anything made or any
metal or glass due to the chance of deflagration/detonation and the fragmentation that would have a good change at damaging something or killing you.
Or better yet go invest in some Ammonium Nitrate as it has lots of different comps and you can do so much with it and its way safer and cheaper, the 2
best things!
If you do consider this I recommend ANSU or ANFO mostly because its cheap yet fun  I go with ANSU because I don't have access to 2# fuel oil. The only issues with ANSU is that its very hygroscopic and its a bit hard to detonate.
but since you said you had a PETN detcap that shouldn't be much of a problem for you.
[Edited on 24-1-2023 by PINKBOII]
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Ankit1612
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I tried to make ammonium nitrate, with conc. nitric acid and 30% liquid ammonia. But the yeild was too low!
Then I made urea nitrate with conc. nitric acid and urea fertilizer.
and tested some UN explosive charges.
https://youtu.be/Q0wLWeyFRgw
Now I want to try same thing, but with a different oxidizer i.e., potassium chlorate.
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Rainwater
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So a plastic bottle tied to a string tossed over a tree branch
1g KClO3 in the bottom
1g garden sulfur on the side.
1g aluminum powder on the side
Got far away, raised the bottle..... nothing
Shake the bottle ...... nothing.
Drop the bottle to the ground .... nothing.
Repeatedly Shake and drop ..... feeling stupid
What now!!!
I know,
Im gonna hit it with a stick.
4 of 5 stars,
Will do again
[Edited on 25-1-2023 by Rainwater]
"You can't do that" - challenge accepted
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B(a)P
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ankit1612 | I tried to make ammonium nitrate, with conc. nitric acid and 30% liquid ammonia. But the yeild was too low!
Then I made urea nitrate with conc. nitric acid and urea fertilizer.
and tested some UN explosive charges.
https://youtu.be/Q0wLWeyFRgw
Now I want to try same thing, but with a different oxidizer i.e., potassium chlorate. |
Consider having your spectators a little further away, both you and them appear to be well in range of a chunk of flying concrete. If you are going to
be using lit fuse, make sure you have enough so that you have time to calmly walk to a safe space and trip over on the way.
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Ankit1612
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Don't worry for fuse..
That is my homemade fuse, it burns for at least 15 sec.
Many times I've tested and calculated it's delay time.
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MineMan
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When I was kids a friend of mine would mix up 20 grams or so for sensitive mixtures. I wouldn’t do it. It scares me what we use to do with it.
Pretty lucky
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Ankit1612
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what about urea nitrate-PETN mixture??
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B(a)P
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On my list of things to try with chlorate is copper II chlorate complexes containing tetrazole derivatives.
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Raid
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i think ill start making tetrazoles to
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Herr Haber
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Has Google stopped working ? 
The spirit of adventure was upon me. Having nitric acid and copper, I had only to learn what the words 'act upon' meant. - Ira Remsen
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