Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1677
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
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Mood: dangerously practical
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EGDN decomposition- safely?
hi, so i noticed most people dunk their nitration mix in water- which seems really stupid to me since the nitrate ester is already at the bottom of
the nitration mix, i dont recall seeing additional stuff coming out once dunking it in water, if i put 20mL EG in i get 20mL nitrate ester back out
again, practically 100%
so, that leaves me with some kinda ... 80% H2SO4 with some nitric still in it- this could be recycled for sure. but im not a fan of heating a strong
acid with energetic stuck inside of it to 100*C
any ideas of how to get rid of potential remains? NG for instance becomes unstable over time in acid and gets exponentially dangerous- does it ever
fully degrade without going off on its own when stored in strong acid?
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ManyInterests
National Hazard
Posts: 838
Registered: 19-5-2019
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I don't know about EGDN, but for NG (and probably EGDN as well) you need to wash away all excess acids if you have any plans for storing it (which is
not a good idea anyway). But NG if prepared properly and cleaned of all remaining acids can last a very long time. Someone on this forum mentioned
that there was a bottle of NG found that was over 100 years old and showed no signs of degradation due no nitric or sulfuric acids being present.
Why would you store NG in strong acid anyway? NG was the primary ingredient in making smokeless propellants from the late 19th century until fairly
recently when they're finding safer alternatives. This is why I don't want to make NG and go for DEGDN instead.
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Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1677
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
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im not sure how this can be misunderstood, im interested in using the acids instead of dunking it down the toilet
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Safety-chart-for-spent-a...
i guess ill have to answer my own question with some vague graphs that only entails it can be potentially dangerous to heat acids from nitration mixes
to 70*C
if i boil acids from EGDN nitration will it blow up???
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Fantasma4500
International Hazard
Posts: 1677
Registered: 12-12-2012
Location: Dysrope (aka europe)
Member Is Offline
Mood: dangerously practical
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it seems i have gotten my answer! heat the acid and let it decompose the nitro compounds, it heats up to about 49*C on its own where it will steadily
decompose
its already dropping down to 46*C implying that the reaction is dying down, decomposition is completing itself- when the nitro-compounds remains have
been removed prior then its only very small amounts that are in the mix
i suppose, adding in excess glycol would help to absorb the leftover nitric acid
adding in cellulose could also work, however it would tend to gel up with the liquid nitrocompounds, i guess nitrocellulose turning into a gel would
be a way to test if there is nitroesters present already
seems worst case scenario for smaller amounts of the acid mix is to go runoff rather than explode, meaning its decently safe to handle, discounting
the fact that its a very dilute solution of a powerful and extra sensitive compound
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