Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: NaClO from TCCA
Kloberth
Harmless
*




Posts: 29
Registered: 2-6-2023
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-9-2023 at 08:22
NaClO from TCCA


I did not find any other thread talking about this, but is it possible to prepare concentrated bleach from TCCA? In theory the TCCA should form hypochloric acid and isocyanuric acid when dissolved in water.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pumukli
National Hazard
****




Posts: 697
Registered: 2-3-2014
Location: EU
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 14-9-2023 at 09:41


As far as I know the solubility of TCCA in water is not too spectacular to say the least. (A few percent comes to mind, but it is only my gut feeling.) On the other hand, even if you dissolve it in water you won't automatically get HOCl solution at the same time. There is a second (hydrolysis) step involved and that is a relatively slow process around pH 7.

[Edited on 14-9-2023 by Pumukli]

[Edited on 14-9-2023 by Pumukli]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bedlasky
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1228
Registered: 15-4-2019
Location: Period 5, group 6
Member Is Offline

Mood: Volatile

[*] posted on 14-9-2023 at 10:44


Make chlorine generator from TCCA and HCl, than bubble Cl2 in to the cold NaOH solution.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fx-991ex
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 95
Registered: 20-5-2023
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-9-2023 at 12:29


Couldnt he use pool shock, calcium hypochlorite Ca(ClO2)2
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Kloberth
Harmless
*




Posts: 29
Registered: 2-6-2023
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 14-9-2023 at 13:55


i could but dont have it on hand

just wanted to know if there is a easy way to make it from stuff i already have

[Edited on 14-9-2023 by Kloberth]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Texium
Administrator
Thread Moved
14-9-2023 at 14:44
Achilles
Harmless
*




Posts: 22
Registered: 18-9-2023
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 19-9-2023 at 10:22


if you bubble chlorine through cold sodium hydroxide you have to deal with a solution full of sodium chloride and the solution is heavily corrosive/reactive even agains skin.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Bedlasky
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1228
Registered: 15-4-2019
Location: Period 5, group 6
Member Is Offline

Mood: Volatile

[*] posted on 21-9-2023 at 05:26


NaOCl solutions always contain NaCl, they are always made frome chlorine and NaOH.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
woelen
Super Administrator
*********




Posts: 8006
Registered: 20-8-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: interested

[*] posted on 21-9-2023 at 06:33


I doubt whether that still is true. In the past indeed such solutions were made from NaOH and Cl2, but nowadays I'm not sure about that.

When I was a teenager, I could buy powdered calcium-bleach, consisting of Ca(Cl)(OCl), which was made from Cl2 and Ca(OH)2. It was sold in supermarkets as bleaching powder. This powder had about 35% "active chlorine". Nowadays it is not sold anymore, but now we have Ca(OCl)2, without the chloride, with appr. 70% "active chlorine". The stuff we buy now is mainly used for swimming pools, but still also is used for bleaching purposes.

It might be that the same is true for bleach. Swimming pool bleach with 13% active chlorine may be mainly NaOCl in solution, with just a small fraction of NaOH and NaCl in it. I might be wrong, it may be an interesting experiment to check that. If you buy fresh high concentration bleach, then you could catalytically decompose all hypochlorite to chloride and oxygen and then determine the chloride concentration.




The art of wondering makes life worth living...
Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Chemgineer
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 216
Registered: 25-5-2021
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 27-9-2023 at 11:50


Quote: Originally posted by woelen  
I doubt whether that still is true. In the past indeed such solutions were made from NaOH and Cl2, but nowadays I'm not sure about that.

When I was a teenager, I could buy powdered calcium-bleach, consisting of Ca(Cl)(OCl), which was made from Cl2 and Ca(OH)2. It was sold in supermarkets as bleaching powder. This powder had about 35% "active chlorine". Nowadays it is not sold anymore, but now we have Ca(OCl)2, without the chloride, with appr. 70% "active chlorine". The stuff we buy now is mainly used for swimming pools, but still also is used for bleaching purposes.

It might be that the same is true for bleach. Swimming pool bleach with 13% active chlorine may be mainly NaOCl in solution, with just a small fraction of NaOH and NaCl in it. I might be wrong, it may be an interesting experiment to check that. If you buy fresh high concentration bleach, then you could catalytically decompose all hypochlorite to chloride and oxygen and then determine the chloride concentration.


I recently bubbled chlorine through a saturated solution of NaOH, after my chlorine generator was done I had a nice yellow solution which I assume was sodium hypochlorite with NaOH and NaCl.

Now in the past I have used shop bought thin bleach to mix with acetone and produce some chloroform.

I tried the same with my prepared hypochlorite solution, I got the heat from the haloform reaction but I did not manage to get a clear layer of chloroform to settle out but ended up with a cloudy solution.

My guess is either the NaOH or the NaCl is interfering with it.

I could try running 2x Cl generators through it to reduce NaOH as much as possible if I decide to carry on with this,

I dissolved 181g of NaOH in 500ml of water and allowed to fully cool.
I then set up 250g of Sodium dichloroisocyanurate (pool granules) in a flask.
I placed an equalized dripping funnel over it with 420ml of 20% hcl and connected the top to tubing and a glass tube which was placed in the NaOH solution.

I'm not sure I will do this again as even working outside, when breaking down the apparatus the chlorine was evil!

[Edited on 27-9-2023 by Chemgineer]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
fx-991ex
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 95
Registered: 20-5-2023
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 27-9-2023 at 12:07


Store bought bleach has NaOH in it to stabilize.
An excess of NaOH should not stop the reaction.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
j_sum1
Administrator
********




Posts: 6288
Registered: 4-10-2014
Location: Unmoved
Member Is Offline

Mood: Organised

[*] posted on 27-9-2023 at 17:13


And yes. Chlorine is evil.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Tsjerk
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 3029
Registered: 20-4-2005
Location: Netherlands
Member Is Offline

Mood: Mood

[*] posted on 28-9-2023 at 02:23


Are you sure it is not chlorine that is interfering?
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top