Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login - Register]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
 Pages:  1  ..  5    7    9
Author: Subject: Say Goodbye to Global Warming
IrC
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline

Mood: Discovering

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 02:04


"I thought we'd dispensed with all this (boomerang?) shite months ago!" - Pulverulescent

I point out :

'Met Office releases new figures which show no warming in 15 years'

I tend to think of those who deny evidence not fitting their belief system by using hard data, logic, and correct methodology as 'followers'. Instead of disproving the numbers recorded by opponents in a logical and scientific manner they do exactly what you just did. Put down and disrespectfully demean any with an opposing view while trying to make them look like stupid fools with no true understanding. Followers typically think their head is so very big no proper method is required beyond insulting and shouting down all those who do not 'follow'.

The only thing they prove is the scientific method does not apply to them since they are so 'right' that no chance of them being 'wrong' exists. Therefore there is no need to look at things with a truly open mind.

The method is not working on me and never will.


"Not sure the significance of the second article, those temperatures are not at all abnormal."

True but they have had an unusually bad winter with record snow. Plus I thought I would try to dissuade anyone from going on vacation there for yet a few more months.


[Edited on 1-30-2012 by IrC]




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 787
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 03:16


Thanks 497, I'll take that as written ─ though the minor possibility exists that it may simply be heavily disguised sarcasm . . .
The phrase, "vast evidence" seems somehow, er, suspect? (:D)
What 'evidence' I have if any, comes directly from my, now failing, senses . . . (:o)

P




"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth ─── rocks!" . . . A Einstein.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 787
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 06:25


Quote:
The method is not working on me and never will.

─ IrC, I'm not actively trying to denigrate you or the posts you make, but I am, at times, less than patient with those who misinterpret that which should be beyond reasonable doubt . . .
You seem to associate heavy snowfall with lowering temperatures, when such precipitation is obviously dependent on temperature differences between two air masses impinging on each other!
Polar air meeting a warm air-mass will cause precipitation, the extent of which is directly dependent on the warm air-mass temperature!
Warmer than usual moisture-saturated air will, when it 'meets' its front-producing cold air-mass produce copious precipitation!
I mean, it stands to reason, doesn't it?

P





"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth ─── rocks!" . . . A Einstein.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IrC
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline

Mood: Discovering

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 08:08


Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent  
I am, at times, less than patient with those who misinterpret that which should be beyond reasonable doubt . . .


Yet you seem to ignore the fact that the data indicates plenty of room for reasonable doubt as is seen by the headlines such as "Met Office releases new figures which show no warming in 15 years", and the writings of a large number of scientists with credentials just as impressive as those you choose to believe.

Especially when you have chosen to overlook the politics, and the trillions of dollars in incentives involved, which would obviously imply there is an agenda involved. Or ignoring reports such as this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB1000142405297020430140457717...

"In spite of a multidecade international campaign to enforce the message that increasing amounts of the "pollutant" carbon dioxide will destroy civilization, large numbers of scientists, many very prominent, share the opinions of Dr. Giaever. And the number of scientific "heretics" is growing with each passing year. The reason is a collection of stubborn scientific facts.

Perhaps the most inconvenient fact is the lack of global warming for well over 10 years now. This is known to the warming establishment, as one can see from the 2009 "Climategate" email of climate scientist Kevin Trenberth: "The fact is that we can't account for the lack of warming at the moment and it is a travesty that we can't." But the warming is only missing if one believes computer models where so-called feedbacks involving water vapor and clouds greatly amplify the small effect of CO2.

The lack of warming for more than a decade—indeed, the smaller-than-predicted warming over the 22 years since the U.N.'s Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change (IPCC) began issuing projections—suggests that computer models have greatly exaggerated how much warming additional CO2 can cause. Faced with this embarrassment, those promoting alarm have shifted their drumbeat from warming to weather extremes, to enable anything unusual that happens in our chaotic climate to be ascribed to CO2.

The fact is that CO2 is not a pollutant. CO2 is a colorless and odorless gas, exhaled at high concentrations by each of us, and a key component of the biosphere's life cycle."

Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent  

You seem to associate heavy snowfall with lowering temperatures


Here you jump at conclusions formed in your own mind of what you think I believe without any evidence to support this conclusion, such as any statements by myself showing that I equate record snow with lowering temperatures. Having lived in Montana for 7 years I can say from experience that such record snow is more often associated with warmer winter temperatures. At 40 to 60 below it does not really snow all that much, right at two to four degrees C is a much more likely temperature for above average amounts of snow, only later does it go really low in temperature. So there was no need for your all too short synopsis on weather theory you thought I needed.

I should add that I see more of this jumping at conclusions in those who support GW than in those who do not. Both sides are ever ready to present graphs proving their claims yet no one seems to be following the money trail which could indicate motivation. If I were to have a tendency to believe one over the other logically I would consider risk. For a person to risk their standing and grant money to go against the politically correct convention, I will give extra weight to their opinion. After all those who risk nothing yet stand to gain greatly are far more likely to be corrupted by an agenda than those who oppose them. Sad that this is the current state of science today but there it is. What are we to do about it. Logic dictates we do not hurriedly destroy our ability to produce energy and food over something so political and involving so much money gain for said destroyers of industry especially if the possibility exists that temperature could go in the other direction. I believe going into an ice age with no heat and no food is far more dangerous than an average one degree possible increase in the next hundred years.







"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sickman
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 98
Registered: 9-5-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: Icy and I see!

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 08:58


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uxeXHMHOcqQ

1816, The Year Without a Summer!:D
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IrC
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline

Mood: Discovering

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 09:31


Better headline is Mount Tambora the volcano without an island.




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
watson.fawkes
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2793
Registered: 16-8-2008
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 13:53


Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent  
Ohhhhh goddd!
I thought we'd dispensed with all this (boomerang?) shite months ago!
And the fucking 'Mail'!
For the illiterate ─ by the illiterate . . .
But sure enough, we're halfway into the Mother of all fucking ice ages?
Jeeez! Gimme a fucking break???
I stopped trying to have a reasonable discussion with the fellow who insists upon having his own facts, including the irrational and disagreeable trait of calling into question anything he already disagrees with and calling other irrational when they disagree with him.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Sedit
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1915
Registered: 23-11-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Manic Expressive

[*] posted on 30-1-2012 at 22:32


It was over looked in another one of these Global warming threads but did anyone notice the chart that I posted showing fluctuations over the past 500 years or so in global temperatures? If you took the chart and cut it down the middle and flipped in onto itself you would see that the peeks and troughs varied by so little it means nothing. IE: The data from that chart seem to suggest that we are well within our margin of error when it comes to temperature fluctuations. When the downs take it say... -5 degrees on average and the peaks reach +5 degrees.... then anything suggesting we are seeing something abnormal is nullified. There is much data to back this up but sadly as I began to gather and post chart after chart that thread was once again locked.




Knowledge is useless to useless people...

"I see a lot of patterns in our behavior as a nation that parallel a lot of other historical processes. The fall of Rome, the fall of Germany — the fall of the ruling country, the people who think they can do whatever they want without anybody else's consent. I've seen this story before."~Maynard James Keenan
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 787
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 31-1-2012 at 01:27


Quote:
I stopped trying to have a reasonable discussion with the fellow who insists upon having his own facts, including the irrational and disagreeable trait of calling into question anything he already disagrees with and calling other irrational when they disagree with him.

To be honest watson, I'm not fully sure which idiot you're referring to, me or Mr 'Hard'Man, since we're both pretty opinionated?
[edit]
Our 'winter' is shaping up to be the warmest on record and last winter broke all records: -18°C where I live!

P


[Edited on 31-1-2012 by Pulverulescent]




"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth ─── rocks!" . . . A Einstein.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
GreenD
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 615
Registered: 30-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: Totally f***ing high, man!

[*] posted on 31-1-2012 at 07:17


Quote: Originally posted by Sedit  
When the downs take it say... -5 degrees on average and the peaks reach +5 degrees.... then anything suggesting we are seeing something abnormal is nullified. There is much data to back this up but sadly as I began to gather and post chart after chart that thread was once again locked.


Are you trying to say that if you have a higher maximum and a lower minimum this isn't abnormal?

The temperature control of the entire planet is VERY complex... I can't even begin to explain the intricities of all the variable ways to regulate the planets temperature naturally. If you add energy to the system of earth you're not just going to get a warming. You're going to get more broad evaporation, more intense condensation, therefore changing growth patterns, changing CO2 sequestering, changing atmospheric composition, changing energy absorption, etc. Not to mention all the man-made concrete, tar, and so forth on the planet that disrupts these cycles.

I did the calculation once - I think the US is covered between 5 and 10% with concrete and tar. If you think that alone doesn't cause some kind of temperature shifts, I don't know how to convince you. Beyond that the idea of "heat islands" (cities) has been proven scientifically.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2990
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 13:40


Great , so now there's 10 centimeters of snow on the Sahara desert.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/people-walk-snow-algiers-algeri...
http://tinyurl.com/87wznh3

I guess then if mean temperature keeps shifting to hotter we can look
forward to 400 ºC in the summer huh.

_____________________________

Not to be outdone , southern Europe ups the ante.
http://tinyurl.com/7rbz5bt



[Edited on 8-2-2012 by franklyn]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
White Yeti
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline

Mood: delocalized

[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 14:16


On that same note, NY usually gets a few feet of snow every year. This year we got a foot in October 2011 and that's it. It's pretty surprising that we're getting such mild temperatures and almost no snow. Last time I checked, the UK was getting more snowfall than us.

I have some pictures of what my yard looked like after the storm; let's just say some trees you can't hug anymore.




"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Lambda-Eyde
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 834
Registered: 20-11-2008
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline

Mood: Cleaved

[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 15:18


Quote: Originally posted by franklyn  
Great , so now there's 10 centimeters of snow on the Sahara desert.
http://news.yahoo.com/photos/people-walk-snow-algiers-algeri...
http://tinyurl.com/87wznh3

I guess then if mean temperature keeps shifting to hotter we can look
forward to 400 ºC in the summer huh.

_____________________________

Not to be outdone , southern Europe ups the ante.
http://tinyurl.com/7rbz5bt
[Edited on 8-2-2012 by franklyn]

I honestly expect better from a site crowded with grown-up scientists...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Statistics




This just in: 95,5 % of the world population lives outside the USA
You should really listen to ABBA
Please drop by our IRC channel: #sciencemadness @ irc.efnet.org
View user's profile View All Posts By User This user has MSN Messenger
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2990
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 15:53


" if mean temperature keeps shifting to hotter "

I'd say that's statistical , certainly the global warming conjecture is.

.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
vulture
Forum Gatekeeper
********




Posts: 3332
Registered: 25-5-2002
Location: France
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 16:09


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Availability_heuristic and anecdotal evidence.

It freezes in september - Oh lords! Next ice age is around the corner!

It doesn't freeze in january - Oh lords! We're going to fry in a blazing inferno of hot air!

Please...




One shouldn't accept or resort to the mutilation of science to appease the mentally impaired.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 787
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 16:16


Quote:
I'd say that's statistical , certainly the global warming conjecture is.

Conjecture? ─ WTF!
So you believe that climate change is unproven?
Wake up!!! :mad:

P

[Edited on 9-2-2012 by ScienceSquirrel]




"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth ─── rocks!" . . . A Einstein.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
IrC
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline

Mood: Discovering

[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 19:24


Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent  
Quote:
I'd say that's statistical , certainly the global warming conjecture is.

Conjecture? ─ WTF!
So you believe that climate change is unproven?
Wake up!!! :mad:

P


Instead of being a drone look at the science. Even if the earth is warming does not mean the greatest percentage of this warming is being caused by mankind. Nor does it mean that it would last over time. So draconian decreases in fuel and food production is not going to make a dent in anything. Other than the nuclear winter which will be seen after the wars which would be the result of mass starvation globally. If you are one of those GW advocates who think we should be walking between our caves and work while eating acorns my question to you is how much of any warming is being caused by the sun and what can humanity do about it.

"In 2005 data from NASA's Mars Global Surveyor and Odyssey missions revealed that the carbon dioxide "ice caps" near Mars's south pole had been diminishing for three summers in a row.

Habibullo Abdussamatov, head of space research at St. Petersburg's Pulkovo Astronomical Observatory in Russia, says the Mars data is evidence that the current global warming on Earth is being caused by changes in the sun.

"The long-term increase in solar irradiance is heating both Earth and Mars," he said."

Mars Melt Hints at Solar, Not Human, Cause for Warming :

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2007/02/070228-mars-...

Sun Blamed for Warming of Earth and Other Worlds :

http://www.livescience.com/1349-sun-blamed-warming-earth-wor...












[Edited on 9-2-2012 by ScienceSquirrel]




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1037
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 22:29


Whoops, this just in:

The Himalayas and nearby peaks have lost no ice in past 10 years, study shows....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/08/glaciers-m...

View user's profile View All Posts By User
franklyn
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2990
Registered: 30-5-2006
Location: Da Big Apple
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 8-2-2012 at 22:39


It last snowed like this on the Sahara in 2005. This is the frequency we in the
northeast United States experience big blizzards. Such events occurring near the
equator in such an arid region are dismissed as a fluke that cannot be significant.
Take however the occurrence of uncommon warmth in Antarctica the coldest region
of the earth and that becomes an evil omen presaging doom and global inundation.
Excuse me while I laugh my ass off.

.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
turd
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 799
Registered: 5-3-2006
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 9-2-2012 at 00:01


Quote: Originally posted by Mr. Wizard  
...prediction as to what the weather will be like next year...

Gosh. People who don't understand the difference between weather and climate should be banned from this thread. That's an insult to our intelligence. Global warming is about fractions of a K to at maximum low single digits of K - then all known models break down anyway. Local weather is about +/-50 K yearly and +/-25 K at a given day of the year, at least where I live.
Quote:
The Himalayas and nearby peaks have lost no ice in past 10 years, study shows....
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2012/feb/08/glaciers-m...

WTF? Reading comprehension problems or malicious selective quoting?
Quote:
"Our results and those of everyone else show we are losing a huge amount of water into the oceans every year," said Prof John Wahr of the University of Colorado. "People should be just as worried about the melting of the world's ice as they were before."

http://www.colorado.edu/news/releases/2012/02/08/cu-boulder-...:
Quote:
“The GRACE results in this region really were a surprise,” said Wahr.
(emphasis added)
This is actually good science: Effect confirmed with much more precise data. New data to refine the models. Well done.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pulverulescent
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 787
Registered: 31-1-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: Torn between two monikers ─ "hissingnoise" and the present incarnation!

[*] posted on 9-2-2012 at 00:57


The biggest per-capita contributor to 'global warming', or whatever you want to call it, produces the greater number of 'deniers'!
Carbon dioxide is demonstrably a greenhouse gas

P

[Edited on 9-2-2012 by ScienceSquirrel]




"I do not know how the Third World War will be fought, but I can tell you what they will use in the Fourth ─── rocks!" . . . A Einstein.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Mr. Wizard
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1037
Registered: 30-3-2003
Member Is Offline


[*] posted on 9-2-2012 at 08:34



I wasn't the one who tried to change the focus (obfuscate) of the debate from "Anthropogenic Global Warming" to "Global Warming" to "Climate Change", while trying to fit the name to whatever would stick to the wall. I'd call it weather. As to not knowing the difference between climate and weather, it might lend a little credibility to the 'Sky Is Falling' crowd if they could make some predictions about weather in the short run. We might let them have the wheel of the car if they quit hitting the wall while trying to get out of the driveway. If I was investing money with a broker, I'd like to see a little competence before I handed my life savings over to somebody. Maybe that's why we end up with the politicians we do, people don't think experience matters, and are willing to believe anything if you put the 'delivery date' far enough in the future, and send the bill to somebody else.

The idea of banning someone from a thread because they don't agree with you is, or should be an embarrassing declaration. It makes me remember the dogmatic representatives of religious, and political groups in our past, and present. Think of the passion and persecution displayed to Galileo and Darwin, and the tactics displayed by proponents of Lisenkoism.

So for those with a nasty vocabulary and ready to duct tape shut the mouths of those who would doubt their holy world saving beliefs; chill out. Try discussing the facts or ideas without resorting to insults. If you must insult, try to be subtle.

I almost forgot. Yes, CO2 is a greenhouse gas, but so is water vapor. Water vapor accounts for 95% of earth's greenhouse effect. I didn't realize you were trying to convince me CO2 was a greenhouse gas.
http://www.geocraft.com/WVFossils/greenhouse_data.html

The assumption the US produces the most CO2 is related to the most 'deniers', (I love that phrase, as it gives the exact mindset of the person using it), is quite false. China produces 23.33% of the CO2 and the US 18.11% in 2008, with the estimated figures increasing significantly in favor of China in the following years. Besides putatively having the most AGW 'deniers', the US has the most Nobel laureates. Oh those stupid, loutish, selfish Americans, "We hates it, we hates it, we hates it forever!!"
;)

View user's profile View All Posts By User
IrC
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2710
Registered: 7-3-2005
Location: Eureka
Member Is Offline

Mood: Discovering

[*] posted on 9-2-2012 at 08:50


Quote: Originally posted by Pulverulescent  
The biggest per-capita contributor to 'global warming', or whatever you want to call it, produces the greater number of 'deniers'!

Carbon dioxide is demonstrably a greenhouse gas
P


What you cannot refute with knowledge and wisdom attack with violence and anger.

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,813814,00.h...

http://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2012/02/08/earths-polar-...






[Edited on 9-2-2012 by ScienceSquirrel]




"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
View user's profile View All Posts By User
White Yeti
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 816
Registered: 20-7-2011
Location: Asperger's spectrum
Member Is Offline

Mood: delocalized

[*] posted on 9-2-2012 at 13:18


I still don't understand why everyone is making predictions about the future. No one is correct on this subject matter, neither the advocates nor opponents of GW. Uncertainty is part of life we just have to accept.

Do you guys remember back in 2008? If I remember correctly, that year was supposed to be normal minimum in the solar cycle, but sunspot activity dropped to unexpected levels, almost breaking the previous record in 1913 according to New Scientist. We can try to predict the future, but advocates of global warming are basing their arguments on "what ifs" and predictions. Considering their predictions change all the time, they are uncertain about the future as well. Anyone who thinks they can predict the future is a moron, end of story.




"Ja, Kalzium, das ist alles!" -Otto Loewi
View user's profile View All Posts By User
ScienceSquirrel
Super Moderator
*******




Posts: 1863
Registered: 18-6-2008
Location: Brittany
Member Is Offline

Mood: Dogs are pets but cats are little furry humans with four feet and self determination! :(

[*] posted on 9-2-2012 at 13:54


Predicting the futuire is a very risky business.
Resource limitations have faced all human societies through time.
At the beginning of the 20th century humanity faced a huge problem due to a possible shortage of nitrates and that was solved by the Haber–Bosch process.
It was partly responsible for the green revolution but also enabled large scale warfare and more besides by allowing the production of explosives on an unprecedented scale.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
 Pages:  1  ..  5    7    9

  Go To Top