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Author: Subject: Thy famous tubes - a scrapyard approach
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[*] posted on 15-3-2004 at 15:59


I didn't want NOx; I still got it and I didn't have the thing red hot. I wanted nitrogen for an N2 laser. The reaction of ammonia and air seemed a really neat solution. Air's mainly N2 all I had to do was strip out the O2 (I didn't care about the other stuff, Ar etc.). Using ammonia as a fuel gave more nitrogen as a by-product. Just what I wanted. the only problem was it didn't work.
It might have worked better if I had a greater ammonia concentration to work from.
I got bored of this game and used sulphamic acid and sodium nitrite.
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[*] posted on 15-3-2004 at 16:22


And noone is impressed with my burner... sigh. Guess I'll have to take a few shots of it burning....

[Edited on 2004-3-16 by axehandle]




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[*] posted on 15-3-2004 at 17:48


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N2 - nitrogen from air

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=726

ok?

Next time please search for your own.




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[*] posted on 15-3-2004 at 17:57


axehandle:
Nice work!

THIS resembles utmost my tube furnace concept. More or less of course... :D




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[*] posted on 16-3-2004 at 14:18


Thanks. Did you need an air dessicator in series with the intake? I built one:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=1691




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[*] posted on 17-3-2004 at 06:58


I dig the steel wool idea for sure.

I know the patent you have noted.

Here is another simular, but more straight forward.

patent 4,220,803
Cu acetate for acetaldehyde
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[*] posted on 17-3-2004 at 09:52


Thanks Ballz, but the patent youn name doesnt use the acetate as catalyst but it uses the acetate to prepare the catalyst which is the oxide.

Doesnt matter though.




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[*] posted on 17-3-2004 at 11:52


Thats the substrate injector



The tube goes straight to the can siphonning the substrate out and delivering it to the tube. The hot air from the hairdryer will hopefully take the substrate with it forward to new adventures......
:D

The inlet is a slaughtered bicycle tire valve, screwed into a hole of the coppertube with some teflon tape. In the copppertube there is some steelwool for distributing the substrate and for the higher surface area facilating evaporation.

At least I would like it to work this way...
;)

[Edited on 17-3-2004 by Organikum]




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[*] posted on 17-3-2004 at 15:25
Overheating


Hairdryers' often have an overheating protection which makes them turn off even when they aren't used to pump air through a catalyst tube. I'd pump air with a suitable pump and wind nichrome wire, with proper insulation of course, around the pipe for heating.

Interesting thread by the way.:)
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[*] posted on 17-3-2004 at 16:57
Questions


Yeah,thats what I said?
Reduce it to oxide.
I believe the acetate is reduced to oxide when used as a semicatalyst anyhows right.Especially @300deg.

Do you plan on any amount of pressure
within thy tube?

I dont quite understand how the siphon feed effect is meant to work.

Are you being literal? Or is it supposed to act on some type of venturi system?
E.g the vaccume caused by the fan/expanding vapour?
In either case,I think a finer diameter copper capillary tube would work much better for the feed inlet
Less surface,less vaccuum needed greater control,durability.
Plus I hate pvc tube.
You couldnt have to great a reducer in between the tube outlet and the condensor for fear of "backpressure".

Say,for once the siphon begins,how will you stop it from flooding the tube?
If you meant siphon that is.


With a couple more bucks spent on copper,and a tap/dye you can easily build a fully automated/safe/recycling system.
Ill post some ideas/design this evening.
Not hard,Just more pipes.
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[*] posted on 17-3-2004 at 17:37


I could punctuate better than that in grammar school.



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[*] posted on 18-3-2004 at 04:35


Punctuation isnt important. Proper cApitAliZaTiOn is what you need to survive :D

Two pictures from a first catalyst preparation test. Copper precipitated on steelwool from hot CuCl2 solution - works like a charm, one can imagine the fractal structures which build up and which will make the big surface area desired for use in the tube furnace.



Thats the partially covered steelwool.



Thats a nearer view to make the idea better imaginable.

The steelwool was washed several times with perchlorethylene to remove oily and fatty residues - thats a MUST DO any defatter should work - then with cupious amounts of water and in the end with distilled water.

Looks good.
:D

ADDON:
I made the reducing piece with gypsum as you told axehandle. If the tube wont work I will blame it on you, ok?
;):P

[Edited on 18-3-2004 by Organikum]




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[*] posted on 18-3-2004 at 07:37


trilobite:
I know of the problems hairdryers have because of the overheating. For this reason I got me an old, low-power (500W max.) dryer. It runs at the moment with the reducing part applied and it seems to work well.

New 1000W+ hairdryers are not very useful here, I agree, to much hassle, better getting an old one than removing the heatsensor and having a "hairdryer meltdown".
Been there, done that....
;)




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[*] posted on 19-3-2004 at 12:07


trilobite right, Organikum wrong, hairdryer quits as soon it has to work against some resistance in the flowpath.

Problem: Airflow and preheating of substrate.
Solution II: 12V computer CPU fan as blower, the hairdryer as separate preheater directed to the tube.

Pictures as soon as the gypsum for the adapter has dried out a lilĀ“ bit - the actual reaction tube will be depicted also then.




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[*] posted on 13-4-2004 at 22:31


Quote:
The tube shall be used in oxidations/dehydrogenations, like toluene to benzaldehyde/benzoic acid,


How is that done?




I weep at the sight of flaming acetic anhydride.
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