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Author: Subject: Advice sought on CO
Aura
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Hello,
I have a question that haunts me. I know VERY little Chemistry, so please bear with me, although my post may look rather silly. I’m looking for a humane way to end the misery of my 15-year old dog. Firearms are not available in my country, I don’t have the heart to smash his head or anything like that. I can, however (and ironically), legally purchase 1 l sulfuric acid (96-98%) and 1 l formic acid (80%). I have no lab equipment, since science is not my field. Maybe I can use a 10 l rather thick glass canister to make CO. I’d like to end him this way, in a manner that should be also safe for me. I’m aware that the reaction would also produce heat, but I don’t know how much. I’d really appreciate some advice. Thank you.
Bot0nist
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Arthur Dent
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There's a thing called a "veterinarian" which will for the sum of $40/$60, humanely and without any pain, dispach your poor suffering pooch.

If your dog isn't worth that much to your eyes, then I don't know.

Robert

--- Art is making something out of nothing and selling it. - Frank Zappa ---
Aura
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No, I'm not trolling. I wish I were. I mean every single word I wrote. And I'd really appreciate advice on that.
Bot0nist
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Aura
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I checked and the "veterinarian" thing is not available in my backwards area. I'd gladly use it, but...
redox
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A veterinarian is a doctor, except he works on and helps animals instead of people.

What country do you live in?

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by redox]

The difference between chemists and chemical engineers: Chemists use test tubes, chemical engineers use buckets.
Aura
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An Eastern European shit hole; an ugly word, but so true...
redox
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I sympathize with you, Aura, you seek a way to put down your dog, but gassing with carbon monoxide is not the way to do it. It is a very dangerous gas, and there are many easier ways to kill an organism.

How about antifreeze? Methanol? Ethylene glycol?
Do they have these products in your country?

The difference between chemists and chemical engineers: Chemists use test tubes, chemical engineers use buckets.
woelen

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Why do you think that this will be a painless way of killing your dog? With the two chemicals you mention you indeed make CO, but also quite some formic acid vapor will escape from the reaction mix and this will be VERY painful for your dog.

Messing around with such quantities of CO is very dangerous, also for yourself and other people nearby.

As stated by Arthur Dent, the best way is to use the service of a veretinarian.

DO NOT MIX 1 L OF H2SO4 AND HCOOH.

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Want to wonder? Look at https://woelen.homescience.net
Aura
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Thanks for the answer, woelen. I was thinking CO because from what I've read it's supposed to be quick and painless. And no, the veterinarian thing is not available, really.
woelen

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DOUBLE POST: database hicc-up

[Edited on 22-6-11 by woelen]

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Aura
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So then, if CO is out of question, should I start wondering about methanol, or ethylene glycol? Are they painless, quick? I hardly know anything about them, and this problem really hurts me. I know I sound silly, but the options here are limited, and so is my knowledge of Chemistry.
entropy51
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Carbon DIOXIDE is an approved euthanasia agent. Google "euthanasia" together with "carbon dioxide".
redox
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Well, ethylene glycol, would actually taste sweet to your dog, I think.

I wouldn't really suggest methanol, as that would probably blind your dog before it kills it.

The difference between chemists and chemical engineers: Chemists use test tubes, chemical engineers use buckets.
Aura
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Should I resort to another idea for making CO? I read somewhere: 4 C + 2 NaNO3=3 CO+Na2CO3+N2.
Would this work, and how?
Nicodem
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 Quote: Originally posted by Aura Thanks for the answer, woelen. I was thinking CO because from what I've read it's supposed to be quick and painless. And no, the veterinarian thing is not available, really.

Who are you trying to fool? Every shithole in Europe has a veterinary station close by, particularly in eastern Europe. Hunter's associations also do the killing service in many European countries, very cheaply and with pleasure.
Your inquiries in using carbon monoxide as a poisoning gas is nonsense. There are dozens of other poisons more suitable for killing a dog, but carbon monoxide is only suitable for presenting a homicide as a suicide or accident.
Aura
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No, Nicodem, I was just trying to find an answer. I'm not trying to use the forum as a muderer's handbook. I can't kill my own dog, much less a person. Sorry if I made you believe otherwise. So far, I only found out what NOT to do, thanks to woelen, but not more. That's because I found no vet, on a 15-km radius, willing to perform it. Moral reasons, they say.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]
redox
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Is there a pound or an animal shelter nearby? Usually they are happy to take animals off of your hands.

The difference between chemists and chemical engineers: Chemists use test tubes, chemical engineers use buckets.
Bot0nist
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 Quote: Originally posted by Nicodem Your inquiries in using carbon monoxide as a poisoning gas is nonsense. :snip: Carbon monoxide is only suitable for presenting a homicide as a suicide or accident.

That's what I was thinking when I reported this post.

U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!

Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
Aura
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Well, Botonist, you are right, it may sound like that, but it's not. I wish I could do something to change your mind.
Redox dear, I don't know where you live, but it's for sure a more civilized place. Looks like another planet to me.
Morgan
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How to Kill a Human Being
http://documentaryheaven.com/how-to-kill-a-human-being/
http://www.news.com.au/technology/humans-will-become-the-pet...
Aura
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Thanks, Morgan, but it's about killing a dog, not a human. There are probably many ways to do it, but I need to do it quickly and painlessly, because I don't have the heart to do it otherwise. I'll go check those links anyway.
Ooops, I watched only 7 mins of the first one and already freaked. That's why I dream of something simple, like pressing a button-and there goes my dog!
I was hoping CO would do the trick, but the whole topic of the thread just went away.
[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]
Saerynide
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What the fuck is your problem?? Please don't kill your dog He loves you and has trusted you with his life for 15 years. What would he think if he knew you would kill him??

Even if your dog is very sick, chances are he would never want you to kill him - animals ALWAYS want to live - it is programmed in them. Please don't kill him

Whatever you do, DO NOT USE METHANOL OR ETHYLENE GLYCOL. Antifreeze poisoning is a very painful death - they will go into kidney failure and take days to die. And methanol will make him go blind and give him seizures from metabolic acidosis long before he dies.

I don't know what your circumstances are and why you want to kill your dog, but if he is really suffering terribly and you must end his life out of compassion, please don't poison him with chemicals. Take him to a vet or find some heroin or something if you are that desperate, but don't poison him

AND DO NOT EVEN THINK ABOUT otc painkillers like acetaminophen, aspirin, ibuprofen, etc. They are very toxic to dogs and cats in very painful ways.

I don't know what I can say to change your mind, but he loves you very much. Don't do it

[Edited on 6/23/2011 by Saerynide]

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Aura
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I wouldn't do anything at all that would make him suffer. I just want to end his suffering, not add more. And that because I really love him. You have no idea how much it hurts me to see him suffer. Anyway, unless I discover a quick and painless way, chemicals, poisons are out of question. I really hoped CO would be the way, and now I'm so disappointed.

[Edited on 22-6-2011 by Aura]
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 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Chemistry in General » Advice sought on CO Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues