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Author: Subject: Be the first kid on the block with a hydrogen-fluorine torch
The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 06:23
Be the first kid on the block with a hydrogen-fluorine torch


From Industrial and Engineering Chemistry.

Hydrogn-fluorine-torch-1.jpg - 562kB Hydrogn-fluorine-torch-2.jpg - 503kB Hydrogn-fluorine-torch-3.jpg - 407kB
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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 07:45


Blind your enemies in more than one way... but don't let it backfire...:D

[Edited on 10-8-2011 by blogfast25]
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sternman318
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 08:16


Ooo, I want one :P

Is there anyway to calculate the temperature of its flame?
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Wizzard
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 09:47


I think the temp is listed at 3500*K :) That's about 3200*C which beats HHO at a mere 2800*C...

I think I want one too.
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smaerd
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 09:59


and people say I am nuts! :o



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blogfast25
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 11:13


Wizard is going through his 'fluorine period'. He'll grow out of it, eventually... ;)
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Neil
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 12:06


Quote: Originally posted by Wizzard  
...HHO...


Every time someone says "HHO" a kitten is dissolved in F2...
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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 12:40


Quote: Originally posted by blogfast25  
Wizard is going through his 'fluorine period'. He'll grow out of it, eventually... ;)


True. However, it will not be for the lack of material.

Industrial and Engineering Chemistry 39, 1947.

Fluorine-chemistry-IEC.jpg - 1.1MB


In the queue ... Prevent large smoking holes - keep your
brass-knuckles out of the lead azide.
(A true war story from
Nam!)


djh
----
Who has heard alot of
"War Stories." The one I
most believe was from a
Sargent I served with in
Germany (ca. 1964).
When I asked about his
experience in WW II —
he just turned his head
away with a "1000-yard stare" —
and said nothing.

That's the kind of war story
I believe.

All gave some ... some all.
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bfesser
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[*] posted on 10-8-2011 at 14:16


I think I'll stick with H<sub>2</sub>O producing flames for now . . . super heated HF gas sounds a little unpleasant.
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White Yeti
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[*] posted on 22-8-2011 at 02:19


Meh...
I would much prefer to have an atomic hydrogen torch so I can destroy refractory cement >:D
It beats your HF torch, 4000C
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The WiZard is In
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[*] posted on 22-8-2011 at 03:57


Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
Meh...
I would much prefer to have an atomic hydrogen torch so I can destroy refractory cement >:D
It beats your HF torch, 4000C


Oxyflame tubes.

http://www.magnumusa.com/flametubes.html

There are other manufactures - variations on this.
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symboom
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[*] posted on 22-8-2011 at 12:29


Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
Meh...
I would much prefer to have an atomic hydrogen torch so I can destroy refractory cement >:D
It beats your HF torch, 4000C


i going with the thermal lance as it turns concrete in to a puddle which im not sure if it burns hotter than an atomic hydrogen torch but ive heared of some using aluminum or magnesium rods to make it burn hotter in the pure oxygen enviroment of the iron pipe
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White Yeti
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[*] posted on 25-8-2011 at 00:25


Quote: Originally posted by symboom  

i going with the thermal lance as it turns concrete in to a puddle which im not sure if it burns hotter than an atomic hydrogen torch but ive heared of some using aluminum or magnesium rods to make it burn hotter in the pure oxygen enviroment of the iron pipe


Temperature is not everything. When it comes to cutting iron and melting refractory(rather than welding), I'd rather have a gasoline torch. It's the most powerful cutting torch out there. Demonstration:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Nvs4fuOBIZw

The fuel is not expensive (contrary to C2H2 or magnesium/ aluminium in your thermal lance). When it comes to welding, I'd rather have an AH welder because a gas torch cannot be used for welding metals together.
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[*] posted on 25-8-2011 at 13:11


Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
When it comes
to welding, I'd rather have an AH welder because a gas torch
cannot be used for welding metals together.


Forsooth! La article on the HF torch sez they welded copper to
copper with it. I have use my Oxy-acetylene brazing torch to
weld US nickel (5-cent) coins together. Unkl Tungsten told his nephews
that Superman did it with his X-ray vision.

Brazing is welding, and if'n your using iron rods you are melting
the work along with the rod.

Someday I am going to find a way to weld with my plasma
cutting torch ....! Heck if people can weld with an carbon arc ...!
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[*] posted on 25-8-2011 at 14:32


Quote: Originally posted by White Yeti  
When it comes to welding, I'd rather have an AH welder because a gas torch cannot be used for welding metals together.


Bunkum.

Anyways in all those Oxygen/fuel (Acetylene, Propane, Gasoline or whatever) torches cutting steel, it's the Oxygen that does ALL the cutting. The O2/gas flame heats up the metal to red/orange heat and then a lever is pushed which sends a blast of pure Oxygen through a hole in the middel of the nozzle of the cutting head and when the O2 meets the red hot metal the temperature goes WAY up (Iron Oxidation) and this melts more and blows away the Iron Oxide formed.

Oxy/fuel torches will not cut stainless steel. They may cut a thin piece very badly but it will be a mess. It will take a very long time to naw through a thick piece (totally impractical).
Dann2

Dann2

[Edited on 25-8-2011 by dann2]
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White Yeti
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[*] posted on 26-8-2011 at 07:48


Quote: Originally posted by dann2  


Anyways in all those Oxygen/fuel (Acetylene, Propane, Gasoline or whatever) torches cutting steel, it's the Oxygen that does ALL the cutting. The O2/gas flame heats up the metal to red/orange heat and then a lever is pushed which sends a blast of pure Oxygen through a hole in the [middle] of the nozzle of the cutting head and when the O2 meets the red hot metal the temperature goes WAY up (Iron Oxidation) and this melts more and blows away the Iron Oxide formed.

Oxy/fuel torches will not cut stainless steel. They may cut a thin piece very badly but it will be a mess. It will take a very long time to naw through a thick piece (totally impractical).
Dann2

Dann2

[Edited on 25-8-2011 by dann2]


I know the oxygen does all the work when cutting, but when you are cutting pieces of metal that dissipate heat very fast, you better have a torch that can deliver a large quantity of heat in a short amount of time, otherwise you'll spend an eternity waiting for the metal to warm up. A gas torch can easily deliver more heat to the metal in a given amount of time than any other torch.

And one thing about stainless steel, why would you bother cutting stainless steel with a fuel torch?!! Rarely do you ever use a beam of solid stainless steel that cannot be cut using a saw (because it's so expensive).

I like the atomic hydrogen welder because it gets hot enough to melt pretty much anything (including refractory) and because it doesn't introduce impurities into the material (except for atomic hydrogen).

In any case I like both because there isn't a "one size fits all" welding and cutting torch. A gasoline torch is great for cutting metals, and an atomic hydrogen torch is good for melting refractory without blasting it out of the way and welding metals together.
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White Yeti
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[*] posted on 26-8-2011 at 07:51


Bah, I realize my mistake.

Sorry guys, I said gas torch, but I meant GASOLINE torch, which is used exclusively for cutting.

Sorry about that, I thought I made myself clear, but apparently I didn't.
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[*] posted on 13-12-2015 at 04:06


Not sure on the gasoline torch but at least with acetylene torch you can coat metal with soot. You may ask why would I want that? Because soot burns off when said metal is 500 degrees Celsius. Real handy in certain brazing operations, especially aluminum alloys.



In the theater of life its nice to know where the exit doors are located.
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[*] posted on 14-12-2015 at 16:40


... and I was scared of a hydrogen torch. Eeek!

The MSDS for the thing would be 900 pages long.

..."Caution, this device generates gaseous Hydroflouric acid. Use by humans is not recommended."




My Journal has moved to http://extraparts.info
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[*] posted on 14-12-2015 at 17:39


If you want bragging rights to the hottest torch on your block (or on-line group) look up plasma torch designs. There are schemes that generate temperatures of 30,000 K or so using helium as the fluid.

There was a column in the old Amateur Scientist column from Scientific American where a teenager made one that ran at an estimated 15,000 K.
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