Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Sodium Hydroxide from sodium carbonate
symboom
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1133
Registered: 11-11-2010
Location: Wrongplanet
Member Is Offline

Mood: Doing science while it is still legal since 2010

smile.gif posted on 22-8-2011 at 11:56
Sodium Hydroxide from sodium carbonate


does any one know if sodium hydroxide can be formed from sodium carbonate.
im figuring the anode and cathode wold have to be separeated as sodium hydroxide slowly absorbs carbon dioxide not sure at what rate.
but at the anode im figuring carbonic acid would form
as separating the anode from the cathode being only connected by a salt brige of sodium carbonate.

or would carbonic acid even form in the water and stay slightly acidic?

NaCO3 > NaOH(basic forming by the cathode) + H2CO2(acidic forming by the anode) at least thats what i think will happen dont have a ph meter to test it :(
any suggestions ??

[Edited on 22-8-2011 by symboom]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bbartlog
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-8-2011 at 07:46


Quote:
NaCO3 > NaOH(basic forming by the cathode) + H2CO2(acidic forming by the anode)


Na2CO3 and H2CO3, not NaCO3 and H2CO2. Anyway, yes: I believe you would get hydrogen gas and some hydroxide in solution in the cathode compartment, and oxygen at the anode, along with sodium bicarbonate. Bicarbonate is still basic though. I guess if you go long enough you would eventually get carbonic acid and CO2 coming out of solution (after all the Na2CO3 in the anode compartment has turned to NaHCO3, i.e. half the sodium ions have been driven to the anode compartment).
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kryss
Hazard to Self
**




Posts: 77
Registered: 11-7-2003
Location: N Ireland
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 23-8-2011 at 12:17


Soda process! Or is it Solvay? Heat chalk (strongly), get lime (we used to have a coal fire), add water, get slaked lime, stir with Sodium Carbonate solution, filter off Calcium Carbonate precipitate.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Roger86
Harmless
*




Posts: 31
Registered: 17-8-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-9-2011 at 09:08


Why would you want to make NaOH from Na2CO3, when you can just electrolyse brine?Well the chlorine is a problem but it can be done outside in great amounts and the sodium hydroxide will be cheap

Since NaOH is otc, im assuming you need lots of it, because you want to make it yourself

and for the electrodes, you can just strip down batteries
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bbartlog
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 2-9-2011 at 13:33


Quote:
Since NaOH is otc, im assuming you need lots of it, because you want to make it yourself


Sounds backwards to me. The more you need of something, the less likely it is that you can do it yourself (at all), let alone do it economically. There might be exceptions for compounds that are obscure and yet easily made, or heavily regulated / semilegal substances, but in general: buying in bulk is cheap, much cheaper than you can make it yourself, and the amount you will save yourself increases as the amount of whatever it is you need grows. If you want to make your own NaOH it should be for entertainment or edification. You won't save money.

View user's profile View All Posts By User
aaparatuss
Harmless
*




Posts: 41
Registered: 12-7-2011
Location: indepth
Member Is Offline

Mood: questing

[*] posted on 3-9-2011 at 14:22


There is a older Japanese paper that discusses producing pure hydrogen gas from cellulose biomass by cooking it under pressure with NaOH. Quite interesting because carbonate is the by product.

from a practical standpoint recycling the carbonate back to hydroxide would dictate the practicality of some type of biofuel process.

We need to turn carbonate into hydroxide in the most efficient manor

Then we can start to power the personal hydrogen economy, fuel cells etc.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
bbartlog
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1139
Registered: 27-8-2009
Location: Unmoored in time
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-9-2011 at 16:39


Quote:
We need to turn carbonate into hydroxide in the most efficient manor


Talk to a cement manufacturer, they convert CaCO3 to CaO all day long (and you can use CaO/Ca(OH)2 to turn the Na2CO3 back to the hydroxide). But this is not really a reason for optimism - the calcining is energy intensive and the easy ways to improve on it have already been found.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top