Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: Iron ethoxide
Pyrovus
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 241
Registered: 13-10-2003
Location: Australia, now with 25% faster carrier pigeons
Member Is Offline

Mood: heretical

[*] posted on 8-4-2004 at 00:22
Iron ethoxide


Over the last few days I've been making sodium ethoxide by electrolysis of sodium chloride in ethanol: ie 2NaCl + 2C2H5OH ->2C2H5ONa + H2 +Cl2. Anyhow, the only material I've had lying around to use for electrodes have been iron paperclips - incredibly bad, I know, iron's quite annoyingly reactive. Anyhow, as a result I have brown red gunk at the bottom of the container, which could either be iron(III) chloride or ethoxide. But which one? I tried google for a while, but found nothing about iron ethoxide or it's properties. I guess my question is, is anybody here familiar with iron ethoxide and its properties, in particular whether or not it's likely to precipitate from an ethanol solution?



Never accept that which can be changed.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
darkflame89
National Hazard
****




Posts: 255
Registered: 1-3-2004
Location: With probability 1, "somewhere" in this
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-4-2004 at 04:29


That red gunk might have been Fe(OH)3 or Fe2O3. Dunno, but i dun think the electrolysis might not be so straight forward as to give you iron ethoxide.( I dunno, i know nothing but organic electrolysis)

But as you said iron is damn reactive, i think you have iron oxide or iron hydroxide sitting there now...

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by darkflame89]




Ignis ubique latet, naturam amplectitur omnem.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Tacho
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 582
Registered: 5-12-2003
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-4-2004 at 06:27


I strongly advise you to use two containers and a salt bridge. You get (hopefully) clean sodium ethoxyde in one container and a dirty mess in the other.

Did you see my posts about this very subject some time ago? I used copper wire electrodes, methanol and sodium acetate. The catholyte (the liquid where you stick the negative electrode, where the methoxyde should form) was clean and alkaline after some time.

[Edited on 8-4-2004 by Tacho]
View user's profile View All Posts By User
KABOOOM(pyrojustforfun)
National Hazard
****




Posts: 254
Registered: 12-10-2002
Location: Iran (pseudoislamic dictatorship of)
Member Is Offline

Mood: exuviating!

[*] posted on 12-4-2004 at 20:07


chlorine reacts with ethanol oxidizing it to acetaldehyde (EtOH + Cl<sub>2</sub> <s>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;></s> Me-CHO + 2HCl) . further chlorination of this yields chloral (Me-CHO + 3Cl<sub>2</sub> <s>&nbsp;&nbsp;&nbsp;></s> Cl<sub>3</sub>C-CHO + 3HCl) .
oh.. hold on... NaCl is insoluble in EtOH!




View user's profile View All Posts By User
Pyrovus
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 241
Registered: 13-10-2003
Location: Australia, now with 25% faster carrier pigeons
Member Is Offline

Mood: heretical

[*] posted on 12-4-2004 at 22:56


It is actually slightly soluble in ethanol, I don't know the exact figures, but enough that a reaction is observed to occur.



Never accept that which can be changed.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
xxxxx
Hazard to Others
***




Posts: 114
Registered: 21-5-2004
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 21-5-2004 at 13:09
convienient sodium ethoxide preparation


there is a us patent from the 1920's, #1,9??,???, which i have used to prepare sodium ethoxide. for a two mole batch 80 grams of naoh is placed in a one liter glass vessel set for distilling. 400 ccs ethanol is added and a line is drawn on the glass with a marker. then 100ccs of toluene is added and gently distilled untill the level of the liquid reaches the line. then more toluene is added like so until the reaction is complete, about 4 or 5 times in 2 or 3 hours. reaction is simple disproportionation driven to completion by removal of water as the lower boiling water-ethanol-toluene ternary azeotrope (77.5?c). if you have the figures for the composition by percent for this azeotrope maybe you could add the correct amount of toluene at the beginning. it is important to minimize exposure to the atmosphere or your product will discolor (orange), although you do not need an inert atmoshere to get a pure white product. patent says all alcohols besides methanol will work. possibly sodium ethoxide in methanol will gradually disproportionate to sodium methoxide due to sodium methoxide being insoluble.
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top