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Author: Subject: Had a little accident :/ Is the stuff toxic??
Adas
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thumbdown.gif posted on 11-1-2012 at 07:00
Had a little accident :/ Is the stuff toxic??


Hello SM,

Today I had an accident, and it might have been worse if my mom hadn't been home.

I was making peroxide watergel using H2O2, KNO3, Al and sugar. This was placed on heating (70-80°C?) while I was at school. What happened was - when the peroxide reached certain concentration, it started to rapidly decompose! Whole house was filled with stink and it remains in my room. Also the floor was damaged a bit. :/ I am not able to ventilate it.

It smells kinda like from burning KNO3 + sugar.

My question is: What is the stink? KNO3? KNO2? How to get rid of it? Is it very poisonous? I really need your help :(

Thnaks for your time. NEVER make PWG!!!

Remains:



[Edited on 11-1-2012 by Adas]




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AirCowPeaCock
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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 07:25


Its probably KNO2, its not toxic, but it is carcinogenic. If you eat beef jerky your already eating it's lesser twin, NaNO2--I wouldn't worry. Whats peroxide water-gel. And what are you stupid? No offense, but leaving something on a hotplate unattended for what--7 hours?!? Especially an explosive mixture with powerful sensitive oxidants! I hate to say it, but this wasn't the PWG's fault, its yours; you were negligent.



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Endimion17
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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 07:45


The smell is certainly something other than KNO3/KNO2. Aerosol contains these two salts, but the smell comes from thermal degradation products of sugar (furfural and similar compounds).

The smoke is somewhat carcinogenic, and no, that doesn't mean you'll get cancer. Just keep ventilating and avoid breathing it.
It's pretty much just burned sugar.

I must say it was pretty negligent of you to leave such mixture on heating, unattended. You might have easily burned your house down.

[Edited on 11-1-2012 by Endimion17]




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Adas
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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 07:50


Thanks, guys. Yes, I was stupid, but not SO stupid - because I was testing it - I put a drop of it on the heating to see if it ignites spontaneously. Nothing happened to the drop.

But, unfortunately, the batch still went off. :/

Is there any method to destroy this nasty smell? Or do I just have to wait?

[Edited on 11-1-2012 by Adas]




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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 08:17


a fan? Maybe--hmm.. give me a sec




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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 08:21


ammonia or hydrochloric acid solution MIGHT work



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Adas
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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 09:47


The smell is now almost gone :) It was probably the product of sugar decomposition. Thanks, guys!



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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 11:43


Don't leave something like that unattended again



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Adas
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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 11:48


Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
Don't leave something like that unattended again


I'd rather never MAKE something like this again. Pretty scary experience.




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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 16:29


Quote: Originally posted by Adas  
Quote: Originally posted by AirCowPeaCock  
Don't leave something like that unattended again


Thnaks for your time. NEVER make PWG!!!
----------------------------------------------------------------

I'd rather never MAKE something like this again. Pretty scary experience.


Agian, in these post, you imply that the attempted PWG was to dangerous and not worth attempting agian. While that is your personal opinion, which you have right to, I feel I must stress that the dangerous variable in this attempted "synthesis" was not the reagents or the composition, but rather, the operator. Here are just a few of the reasons I think that.

1, According to a lot of what I read, PWGs are to be made on site, just a hour or so before intended use, else the peroxide breaks down to water and the comppsition reforms into a watery state in longer storage, IIRC.

2, You left a hot plate running for 7 hours unattended, in your house, with you not even at while at home. If that isn't bad enough, you were drying an energetic material on said hotplate. VERY POOR JUDGMENT, IMO.

Please don't take this post as flaming. That's not my intention. BUT PWG and it's (proper) synthesis are not at all at fault here.




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[*] posted on 11-1-2012 at 21:05


WTF is PWG?! It sounds like sugar propellent on steroids..



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[*] posted on 12-1-2012 at 03:40


Forum search for Axt peroxide water-gel.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=3214#p...

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by Bot0nist]




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[*] posted on 12-1-2012 at 15:13


to remove the smell buy an ozone generator(ebay) ~$20. close all the doors to that room and let it run While no one is present for the amount of time directed for the amount of cubic feet you are trying to purify. this should significantly help to reduce to smell.
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[*] posted on 12-1-2012 at 15:33


The problem with H2O2 as the oxidizer in mixes is that H2O2 is not stable over time in the presence of organic material. A radical cascade reaction will spontaneously be initiated after some time, which can lead to warming or even spontaneous ignition. Small traces of transition metals catalyze the decomposition of H2O2, and this reaction is especially vigorous in the presence of any organic material such as flour or guar gum (read about "Fenton reaction"). Aluminum powder by itself would not be expected to react with H2O2 in storage (especially with 1-2% boric acid stabilizer added), this is because Al forms a protective layer of Al2O3 over the surface of the particles that tends to prevent further oxidation.

Here is a quick list of incompatible ingredients in a pyrotechnic mixture:

chlorates + sulfur (or phosphorous)
magnesium + ammonium nitrate
aluminum + sulfur + nitrates
hydrogen peroxide + anything organic (sugar, flour t.ex)

[Edited on 12-1-2012 by AndersHoveland]
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[*] posted on 13-1-2012 at 05:24


Quote: Originally posted by methylene_beam  
to remove the smell buy an ozone generator(ebay) ~$20. close all the doors to that room and let it run While no one is present for the amount of time directed for the amount of cubic feet you are trying to purify. this should significantly help to reduce to smell.


Thanks, but the smell is now absolutely gone. And I must say, that you forgot to mention that ozone eats every metal in the room!




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[*] posted on 13-1-2012 at 07:52


Quote: Originally posted by Adas  
Quote: Originally posted by methylene_beam  
to remove the smell buy an ozone generator(ebay) ~$20. close all the doors to that room and let it run While no one is present for the amount of time directed for the amount of cubic feet you are trying to purify. this should significantly help to reduce to smell.


Thanks, but the smell is now absolutely gone. And I must say, that you forgot to mention that ozone eats every metal in the room!


And rubber, and dyes, and just about anything.

There'll be no damage unless he starts doing it on a regular basis.




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