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neptunium
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dumbing down science
as i am sitting here at my computer and my wife is watching a pre-recorded episode of jersey whores...(oops)
i cannot help to think and witness how low TV programing got.
now big rich texas is on ....and although i am still not sure what this show is about , i just wanted to know if anybody else noticed how STUPID TV
got lately?
And by lately i mean the last 20 years...
The very country who put a man on the moon in the vacuum tubes era, is the very same country that broadcast such nonsense and dumb entertainement.
what happened to educational entertainement of my childhood ?
is science still relevant? or is entertainemet means dumb show like dance moms?
is it wrong or bad to be or want to be educated?
how did science ended up being an outcast in TV programing?
over 200 channel and only 1 of science? and even that is being dumb down!! i mean "big bigger biggest" ???
where are we going as people? as a country? does every knowledgeable people will be foreign born?
come on america? you can easily do better than that!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
can you??? sometimes i wonder!
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jamit
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I can't agree more... in general everything on tv is trash... its getting worse and there is an endless need to do more bizarre and perverse things in
order to entertain and to keep the rating.
I can't be optimistic as you are about america... I love the country and its history (though not perfect but which country has been better than the
US, I can't think of any in doing the most good) but as far as moral and scientific education is concerned we are in big big trouble.
My son, who is an 8th grader, tells me that when he tried to read extra science material that were handed out in class, his friends thought it was a
waste of time. They have absolutely no interest -- beyond the latest video games and sports. My son loves sports, but he is also very interested in
alternative source of energy other than fossil fuel. I'm encouraging him to study more on the subject and to read and study it so that he might make
it his career to become a scientist ... or at least be scientifically educated whatever he might do with his life. Of course, I'm doing all kinds
of chemistry experiments with my kids, to foster scientific thinking and reasoning, both through logic, experimentation, and fun.
Anyway, as far as tv and science is concerned, its a losing battle. Kids would rather watch endless dumb-down tv shows over educational science.
Schools won't get kids excited about science, its up to the parents to get involved and to show them the "wonders" of the world and to help them
discover its secrets -- that's what I love about chemistry!!!
Anyway, that's my thought on the subject... depressing eh?
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by jamit]
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by jamit]
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by jamit]
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by jamit]
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by jamit]
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neptunium
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well Jamit i am glad to see that some people at least still home school their childrens, but yes it is very depressing..
you are doing the right thing though, motivating the kids and getting them interested in science is an upmost priority .and if ignored the problem
will get out of control (if it isnt already)
how do we fight back now? without being called a loser or a terrorist?
why is it so hard to compete with stupidity?
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by neptunium]
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zoombafu
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The thing that I hate the most is that the History/discovery/science channels have all started excessively showing crap 24/7 about the coming 2012
apocalypse. While this can be interesting, I think that the majority of the programing now is based around conspiracy theories, and less around
actual science.
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Lithium
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yes, i have noticed that nobody shows interest in science in my class, and we are in science 1! we were shown a movie about atoms, and everyone was
saying things like, oh this is stupid, and, omg i am so going to fail. my science teacher caught me drawing chemical equations in my book and didn't
know what to do!
i believe people have the mentality that doing science is "nerdy", or that they will fail before they try
what has society become.
Li
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by Lithium]
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woelen
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Over the past 30 years we have seen that the quality of the media, measured in terms of useful and educational content is inversely proportional to
the quality of the media, measured in terms of resolution, network bandwidth and sound and image reproduction.
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Broken Gears
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Here in Denmark people are very much into science. I think that the goverment realized that we will not survice on hard labor, because of the
competition from poorer countries that have low salaries. So we have to make our money on technology and know-how.
But the shit on tv is the same problem here. Reality tv showing young people getting drunk, partying and getting paid at the same time.
I really think that the media is damaging the moral of everybody. Its not ALWAYS: "monkey see, monkey do", but sometimes it is.
I feel bad for the youth here... and Im not even 30 yet
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neptunium
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looks like they get it in Denmark! they understand whats at stake.
i agree with zoombafu as well, discovery has reached new level of sillyness i thought west coast chopper were the dumbest !
History and H2 also stand out in stupidity with ancient aliens.
Nat/Geo was doing good untill border wars and all that cop thing..
if someone doesnt get hurt/drunk/pissed/arrested the show is a bust!
I dont beleive in conspiracy (too dumb to keep it secret maybe?) but TV progaming are feeding what people want to watch, so its up to us to say NO!
some people who watch theses shows have very little interest in politics, and probably wont vote anyway ! so they wont know why their show was
cancelled and likely wont investigate why.
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Endimion17
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I've tried to watch History channel. Let's just say the attempt lasted for less than half an hour. What a [B]shithouse[/B]. A terrible shame.
NG is not what it used to be. I remember it was just filled with documentaries being presented using a genuine scientific curiosity and amazement
(Attenborough!). I could watch a fucking ant nibbling a leaf while listening to the presenter encouraging all that.
Nowdays, it's all "OMG WOOOOOW SO HUGE YEEEEEAH SO BIG DESTRUCTION EXPLOSION AMAGAAAD
EXTREME!!!11!"
Have the people become tired? Have their senses become dulled, so that they only react to violent and mad shit on the screen?
Honestly, what the fuck happened?
And it's not just main Western media. It happens all over the globe.
Everytime I get home for the holidays, I see my folks dumbed down a little bit more. They just sit there, fixed on the screens, watching plain
MINDBLOWING rubbish. Turkish soap operas (yeah, all of a sudden it became a huge hit, it's the same crap as Mexican ones, only with weirder language,
more facial hair and irritating Eastern music), reality shows with incredibly stupid people and hosts, ever dumber newscasts.
Late night is reserved for charlatans. Swinging pendulums, tarot, astrology. Luckily, my folks aren't into that.
Our public broadcast network even included one pseudoscientific show in the "science and education programme", so few scientists made a public notice
about it. It was kind of a big deal few years ago, but without much success.
As someone who had the chance to really witness and understand the the downfall of TV quality during the last 20+ years, I can say it hurts. Younger
people aren't bothered by this because they only know bad TV, so they can't do a comparison.
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Mirage
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Or how about mythbusters, when they started, like 9 or 10 season ago, they incorporated a lot more science (low level albeit) then they do now. All it
is now is, "OOOOOOHHHH, EXPLOSIONS! SLOW MOTION" I beleive it has changed into more of an entertainment show now than an educational show.
Mirage
Quote: Originally posted by zoombafu  | | The thing that I hate the most is that the History/discovery/science channels have all started excessively showing crap 24/7 about the coming 2012
apocalypse. While this can be interesting, I think that the majority of the programing now is based around conspiracy theories, and less around
actual science. |
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bfesser
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| Quote: Originally posted by woelen | | Over the past 30 years we have seen that the quality of the media, measured in terms of useful and educational content is inversely proportional to
the quality of the media, measured in terms of resolution, network bandwidth and sound and image reproduction. |
Quoted for truth.
If and when I have children, I plan to show them the educational television programs I watched when I was younger. <em><a
href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nova_(TV_series)" target="_blank">NOVA</a></em> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> and
<em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beakman's_World" target="_blank">Beakman's World</a></em> <img
src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> would be at the top of the programming schedule. For those of you who haven't heard of <em>Beakman's
World</em>, it's similar in most respects to <em><a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bill_Nye_the_Science_Guy"
target="_blank">Bill Nye the Science Guy</a></em> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> but predated it by about a year. The former
is also more entertaining to watch as an adult than the latter—some dark humor I never picked up as a child.
[Edited on 7/23/13 by bfesser]
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GreenD
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I stick with netflix's documentaries. They are almost all great, and I don't get polluted with bullshit capitalistic commercials litter with sex
appeal and prostate cancer.
I would really like to get the channel "curiosity" but you have to pay for like 40 other channels.
I remember once sitting in a pizza parlor and CNN was on their complimentary big-screen. It was during the arab spring in egypt. Over and over and
over (literally 30+ times) they played a clip of a limosine running over about 15-20 protesters at 60 mph if not faster. I became sick to my stomach
but I could not for the life of me understand why they showed the clip at all, let alone looping it. Over. And over. And over.
Needless to say arms and limbs were all over the place and I'm sure a good portion of those people died. I can't stand the media. It is a giant fear-
mongering machine.
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by GreenD]
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neptunium
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i used to get the discovery channel on sirius radio a few years back (2004) they had intersting talk shows and documentary about egyptology,
cosmology, biochemistry etc...i really enjoyed it when driving long hours (i drive a semi)
it was cancelled and replaced by not 1 but 3 sports channel.
I called Sirius (before they merged with Xm) and asked them how many sports channels they needed to have on top of the already 10 or 12 ..They said
it was regretable but according to their survey and polls thats what people wanted!
I never got polled! who are they asking to? who the hell is answering theses polls???
i beleive it though, the media ,the TV channels are in business to make money so if thats what people want to pay a subscribtion for then who could
blame them?
greedy bastards!
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tastyphenome
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the few safe coves, hist/disc/sci have all resorted to bullshit semi-reality blue collar shows involving people from the south. like its trendy.
now i enjoy the occupational shows occasionally, but not once they go into character development. dirty jobs, okay. swamp men/blly the
exterminator/etc and just DUMB and a waste of time. no data conveyed.
tho i am glad hist got beyond the pre 2000 Hitler channel deal. it was good for a while, now its just bleeeeh.
now i have netflix and a slow connection... no use there.
might i say you all should give This American Life a try. a treal try, find one you like and your life will never be the same. i find the radio format
to be FAR superior to video when it comes to science. i absorb SO much more because i am forced to entertain the whole thing in my head and draw
pictures, you dont slip into that theta wave hypnosis.
http://www.thisamericanlife.org/radio-archives
and Radiolab, if you can find them, not put out as publicly as TAL. The two guys who do this show have a very fun way of isolating a very small idea,
then blowing it up huge, then condensing it down to give you goose bumps! but otherwise two shows have been my primary mind blower for about 4 years
now.
the people involved in producing these two shows are the only people i trust anymore....
not all of it is about science, but most is, and the stuff that is not is just as mind blowing. okay. thats my npr plug, the membership drive is now
over on scimad!
EDIT: Thisd goes along with the serius thing. There is a huge problem with tv. the idea that you should make what ppl want to watch is wrong. people
will watch what you tell them they want to. so stop suppling the heroin and start putting out quality. fuck polls. just cuz it polls bad does not mean
pull it. it means maybe you are not putting enough effort into it. if you keep using polls to decide things, it will snowball and end up like TV from
Idiocracy. just a guy getting kicked in the nuts and 20 ads floating across the screen.
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by tastyphenome]
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GreenD
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Its bogus. My room mate wakes up every morning and watches a recap sports show that basically sums up every fu**ing sports event of the previous day
in 30 seconds and moves on to the next one. Every morning I come in and say "Hey how are them sports doing?" He just nods and goes back to hypnosis.
My girlfriend says often "I know I shouldn't watch this but amagawd have you ever seen the show (insert some kind of physical problem with the body
here)? There was this girl.." Oh GOD. WHY DO YOU WATCH THIS MINDLESS SH&T.
Watching a good sports game - sure I get it. Watching every sports game? How can you get excited about that?
Don't even get me started on the history channel. They come up with pure bullsh&t to fill in the minutes. Literallyu pulling shit out of their
asses.
I'm not kidding when this was displayed on one of their "UFO" shows:
http://funkydowntown.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mona-lis...
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mr.crow
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Maybe this belongs in Whimsy? I don't have access to it, nor do I really want to
WARNING, RANT AHEAD
Yes it is a business designed to make money off of you. By paying for it you support it.
Cancel your cable or satellite. You are paying tons of money per month on channels you never even watch. If you like a certain TV series you can watch
it on Netflix or download it for free with bit torrent. You can also build a HDTV antenna out of coat hangers and get some basic free channels.
Also stop seeing shitty movies. They aren't even real any more, just computer generated crack fantasies with actors in front of a green screen. By
consuming the latest Transformers movie, for example, you are paying for an industry that is now directly trying to influence the US government, and
therefore every other government that sucks up to them, to promote Internet censorship and surveillance.
Maybe this is just a symptom of a deeper sickness in society. Even in Canada I am exposed daily to the republican primaries in the States. How these
people exist and get votes is beyond me. As power slips away from them every day they get more and more extreme and hateful
Double, double toil and trouble; Fire burn, and caldron bubble
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GreenD
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Transformers was thought provoking I thought.
[Edited on 8-3-2012 by GreenD]
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neptunium
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the matrix was a bit better than transformer as far as thoughts provoking!
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Mirage
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Except there is no dark of the moon, (next to some crevasses etc.)
Yes, Discovery has turned into more of a show about occupations than science. I don't understand AT ALL how swamp logger is education. All you need
for those shows are "Sht, our truck broke. Gun take 2 weeks fer the new part. We's gunna lose money and have ta stop loggin' insert long phrase of
profanity." if any of those shows are on, I just flip the tv off. There is absolutely nothing else.
I don't have a tv at home, but my grandparents do and that is where I watch any TV I do watch. My grandpa usually records AFV or just for laughs for
me, and that's all I watch unless, something other than occupation shows are on disc.
Mirage
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neptunium
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through the wormhole woth Morgan Freeman is a pretty good show compare to the rest of whats on.
I think people refuse to have to do any thinking when watching TV. Skeptisiscm is gone.
if the TV (or youtube!) said it then it must be true.
no critical thinking !
The problem becomes scary when people stop thinking about the news, if the news reported it then it must be true .
we can no longer think for ourselves , looks like we need to be told what to think, do, how to have fun , what to eat, to wear, etc...
dangerous path.
obviously we need people to be hard working dumbasses we dont like thinkers and skeptics....sounds like the dark ages are back
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AndersHoveland
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Most american high schools used to have fairly well equiped chemistry laboratories- with "dangerous" acids, gas burners, and distillation setups. Then
the country became overwhelmed with low income families with many children, and budget cuts had to be made. Many of the older schools, now in the
crime-ridden inner cities, still have chemistry laboratories. They have just been locked and used as storage rooms. The middle class escaped into the
suburbs long ago. But the new schools in the suburbs were smaller and not as nice, and not equiped with many of the luxuries of the old schools,
including chemistry laboratories.
Most of the chemical business has been exported to China. Not anymore need for american chemical engineers. The only students that study chemistry now
are just trying to fulfill requirements to go into the medical field.
American educational institutions have been dumbed down.
Part of the reason is the changing demographics and declining intelligence of public school students.
The other part of the reason is that public education has turned into politicised indoctrination. It is not really about preparing students for the
rest of their life anymore. It is about subtly molding their beliefs...
Honestly, do american students even realise how unusually often their teachers talk over and over again about the "civil rights movement" and
"the holocaust"? Racial anthropology classes have been renamed "cultural" anthropology, and apparently race does not exist anymore.
Then there is sociology in the universities. Poverty should be eleminated, but what does that have to do with "equality"?
*(The mainstream histotical depiction of how jews were treated in nazi germany has become very distorted for political reasons. If I thought the
events were even half like what is typically seen in televission, I would not have put the word holocaust in quotation marks. Do you even realise how
many germans died of starvation before, during, and after the war? Little fact that the younger american generations have forgoten about, the concept
of permanently eleminating the german peoples was widespread in american publications even before the first world war. The similarities between how
Americans talked about germans and how the nazis talked about jews was very similar. The USA considered putting much of its german population into
concentration camps, as it did with its japanese citizens. Indeed, the americans starved or mistreated german prisoners, including women, to death
just like the jews got mistreated. The Americans have been accused of causing the deaths of more german prisoners and civilians during the occupation
than the 6 million jews that the germans supposedly killed, but this never seems to get mentioned for some reason. Auswitz was like a vacation resort
compared to some of the american run prisoner camps in Sinzig and Remagen. http://www.serendipity.li/hr/bacque01.htm It is unfortunate the horrible ethnic killings during that time have become so politicised that they
cannot now be recorded in a neutral way. The real message of these events is that the true Holocausts are veiled under the
guise of war and economic control, and that most of the murders are through depriving the victims of shelter and preventing them from growing food.
The Jews are not entittled to any special monopoly to this word. Not historically, and certainly not now )
I say free trade and open borders are bad. Just look what it has done to science. The internet is the one good thing that has developed in recent
years.
Sorry for the rant. It is just america's disasterous policies will soon be repeated here. You can keep your cheap trinkets and low-priced services
from exploited workers! I want to keep the jobs and good affordable neighborhoods, with their schools that are not yet overburdened.
You ask why schools are being dumbed down?
The answer is simple: to meet demand!
Just compare the pre-1950 textbooks with those being used now. Huge difference!
[Edited on 9-3-2012 by AndersHoveland]
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GreenD
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What the hell are you talking about, do you know how many chemistry professors there are? how many american-chemical companies are? How much research
goes on in the US related to chemistry? The united states education system hasn't gone DOWN, everyone else has gone UP.
What does any of this post have ANYTHING to do with the lower class and suburbia?! If I would comment on anything you said, A mod would come around
and say I was off topic and threaten to ban me though, so I'll refrain from that.
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DougTheMapper
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Bill Nye got me into chemistry in the first place. The very first chemistry experiments I ever remember doing as a child of perhaps 5 or 6 were
mimicking Bill Nye. I did the NaHCO3/AcOH volcano, cleaning a penny with NaCl/AcOH (in-situ HCl), the steam-powered jet boat from a cigar tube...
I also checked out a copy of 700 Science Experiments For Everyone extremely often from the elementary school library until my mother bought
me my own copy.
At the time, DorlingKindersly and Eyewitness Books became my chief pastime. I fondly remember proudly explaining to my father about what CuSO4 was and
what it was used for. Secretly I vowed that I would one day own some. (This was before you could just buy a couple kilos on the internet at the drop
of a hat.)
I also reside in Detroit, perhaps an hour's drive from the Henry Ford Museum and Greenfield Village. Starting at a very early age, I have been there
more times than I can count. I'm STILL fascinated by all the old equipment - huge engines, dynamos, old and enormous machines which shaped the history
of the country...
My favorite part by far is Thomas Edison's Menlo Park laboratory; from my childhood I remember quite vividly looking at all the glass jars full of
chemicals and shelves stocked with apparatus and vowing that one day I would have a lab like that. I wanted to be an "inventor" for a long time and
would list that as my future occupation whenever school exercises required it.
I owe it to my parents for taking the time to take my siblings and I through factory tours, museums, science centers, "bring your child to work day",
and that "Our Body" traveling exhibit.
It's a shame that these things are in steady decline - not only from the economy but simply lack of interest. Where I want to high school, more money
and effort is pushed into the school football team than the Science Olympaid team and chemistry department combined! Sad.
Victor Grignard is a methylated spirit.
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Bot0nist
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A Bill Nye here kid myself! I remember watching an episode as a boy about chlorine and sodium, how they are really reactive and dangerous but
combined, they are table salt. Also about the formation of water through the ignition of H<sub>2</sub> in oxygen. I just remember feeling
some profound sense of understanding in my preteen brain that I had not experienced before.
| Quote: | | Where I want to high school, more money and effort is pushed into the school football team than the Science Olympaid team and chemistry department
combined! Sad. |
Same here. It is depressing, considering our country's standing in the world in education.
[Edited on 9-3-2012 by Bot0nist]
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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watson.fawkes
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No, you're not sorry. You are a serial ranter. You keep doing it even when asked not to.
Free advice: save your crocodile tears for people who don't know much about you.
Personally, I would appreciate it if you would post less, particularly everything about society and history that has nothing to do with science. This
is a board about science. Because you have a tendency to remain dim about this point, I cannot figure out for the life of me how your words below
about Nazis have even a shred of relevance to the topic of this board.
| Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland | | *(The mainstream histotical depiction of how jews were treated in nazi germany has become very distorted for political reasons. If I thought the
events were even half like what is typically seen in televission, I would not have put the word holocaust in quotation marks. Do you even realise how
many germans died of starvation before, during, and after the war? Little fact that the younger american generations have forgoten about, the concept
of permanently eleminating the german peoples was widespread in american publications even before the first world war. The similarities between how
Americans talked about germans and how the nazis talked about jews was very similar. The USA considered putting much of its german population into
concentration camps, as it did with its japanese citizens. Indeed, the americans starved or mistreated german prisoners, including women, to death
just like the jews got mistreated. The Americans have been accused of causing the deaths of more german prisoners and civilians during the occupation
than the 6 million jews that the germans supposedly killed, but this never seems to get mentioned for some reason. Auswitz was like a vacation resort
compared to some of the american run prisoner camps in Sinzig and Remagen. http://www.serendipity.li/hr/bacque01.htm It is unfortunate the horrible ethnic killings during that time have become so politicised that they
cannot now be recorded in a neutral way. The real message of these events is that the true Holocausts are veiled under the
guise of war and economic control, and that most of the murders are through depriving the victims of shelter and preventing them from growing food.
The Jews are not entittled to any special monopoly to this word. Not historically, and certainly not now ) |
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