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Author: Subject: Oxalic acid and nitric acid
plante1999
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[*] posted on 15-5-2012 at 14:39
Oxalic acid and nitric acid


How oxalic acid react with concentred nitric acid? I know that oxalic acid can reduce chlorate to chloride dioxide. In fact I searched in my reference and I did not find what I searched for, this is why I ask for your help.

H2SO4 + 2KClO3 + H2C2O4 -) K2SO4 + 2H2O + 2ClO2 + 2CO2

Since nitrate is roughly similar to chlorate I tougth that a similar reaction could happen.

(hypothetical reactions)
H2SO4 + 2NaNO3 + H2C2O4 -) 2CO2 + Na2SO4 + 2H2O + 2NO2
H2SO4 + 2NaNO3 + 2H2C2O4 -) 4CO2 + Na2SO4 + 3H2O + N2O3 ( NO2,NO)




I want to know since I could not get metabisulfite fast enough and I want to make nitrites(tread: make nitrosylsulphuric acid, NOHSO4)

Thanks!!!

[Edited on 16-5-2012 by plante1999]




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barley81
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[*] posted on 15-5-2012 at 16:18


Nitrate is not similar to chlorate, really. Nitrate is planar, while chlorate is trigonal pyrimidal. Chlorate is a stronger oxidizer. Nitric acid is stronger than chloric acid. Chloric acid is unstable, while nitric acid is much more stable. Nitric anhydride can be isolated, while chloric anhydride cannot be isolated.

If you really want to find the answer, you should mix oxalic acid and nitric acid. I saw in NurdRage's video about manganese nitrate that brownish fumes were evolved after nitric acid was added to the mixture of manganese compounds and oxalic acid.
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plante1999
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[*] posted on 15-5-2012 at 16:28


I know that nitrate are not the same as chlorate but some reaction can be compared... I asked this question since I could get 250g of it at the pharmacy for 10$ CAN but I want to know if it will work before buying it.



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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 15-5-2012 at 21:01


Concentrated nitric acid can oxidize many organic compounds, and in the process give off brown fumes of nitrogen dioxide. So it might be possible that strongly acidified chlorate could do the same also. However, one source mentions the reaction between chloric acid and methanol, and noted that it did not give off any chlorine dioxide, although it does mention chlorous acid was formed during the reaction.
http://www.tappi.org/Downloads/unsorted/UNTITLED---ipb96453p...
It may be that the reaction rate of chlorine dioxide oxidizing organic compounds is significantly faster than chloric acid. It should be noted that, unlike nitric acid, high concentrations (above 40%) of chloric acid are unstable, and trying to react concentrated sulfuric acid with chlorates can lead to explosion.
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AJKOER
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[*] posted on 21-6-2012 at 07:55


Per Watt's boiling Nitric acid slowly oxidizes Oxalic acid to CO2. As such, at room temperature I would expect it to be largely stable in the presence of HNO3 for a limited time.

Source: "Watts' dictionary of chemistry", Volume 3, by Henry Watts, page 649.
Link:
http://books.google.com/books?pg=P649&lpg=PA649&id=Q...


[Edited on 21-6-2012 by AJKOER]
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barley81
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[*] posted on 21-6-2012 at 08:16


Plus, oxalic acid can be made by oxidizing sugar with nitric acid in the presence of vanadium pentoxide. I agree with AJKOER that the reaction is slow, because the process would give very little yield if the oxalic acid were oxidized quickly.
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chemretd
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[*] posted on 3-8-2012 at 14:27


A "safe" way of generating chlorine dioxide, mixed with an equal volume of carbon dioxide was published (I can't remember where) as warming a mixture of potassium chlorate and oxalic acid on a water- bath. In my spotty youth (MANY years ago), I tried this with sodium chlorate. It generated a green gas alright, but with a very alarming LOUD crackling noise. I suspect that this safe method is a serious accident waiting to happen.
My intention had been to dissolve the chlorine dioxide in chilled 70% nitric acid - part of an idea I had for a self - igniting liquid rocket fuel.
Not wanting to risk this route, I tried dissolving sod. chlorate in nitric acid, and was rewarded with a green syrup, which did indeed ignite just about anything it touched. Fortunately, I abandoned my Goddard/von Braun- like ambitions, and went on to a more grown- up study of Chemistry!
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AJKOER
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[*] posted on 9-8-2012 at 07:58


Quote: Originally posted by chemretd  
A "safe" way of generating chlorine dioxide, mixed with an equal volume of carbon dioxide was published (I can't remember where) as warming a mixture of potassium chlorate and oxalic acid on a water- bath. In my spotty youth (MANY years ago), I tried this with sodium chlorate. It generated a green gas alright, but with a very alarming LOUD crackling noise. I suspect that this safe method is a serious accident waiting to happen.


For those interested and safety concerns, here is the reaction equations and source for Chemretd comment:

2 NaClO3 + H2C2O4 --> 2 HClO3 + Na2C2O4 (s)

and with more excess Oxalic acid:

2 HClO3 + H2C2O4 --> 2 ClO2 + 2 H2O + 2 CO2

so the net reaction is:

2 NaClO3 + 2 H2C2O4 --> 2 ClO2 (g) + 2 H2O + 2 CO2 (g) + Na2C2O4 (s)

See http://books.google.com/books?id=6wUmteTIc18C&pg=PA334&a...

as was reported by Chemretd. This reaction is interesting in that in the first reaction Oxalic acid is acting in an acid role (see Plante1999 opening post above) and in the second as a reducing agent. This is surprising to some and may precipitate an accident.

Another example of this possible dual role of Oxalic acid was reported by Watt's (see page 649 http://books.google.com/books?pg=PA649&lpg=PA649&sig... ) as the reduction of HOCl by Oxalic acid. So the addition of very dilute Oxalic acid (and not concentrated H2C2O4 which can produce a very violent reaction with a hypochlorite and an explosion with a dry hypochlorite) to even pure NaOCl would first form HOCl, which could subsequently be reduced by excess H2C2O4 to HCl and CO2 (and then some Cl2). Speculated reaction sequence:

H2C2O4 + 2 NaOCl + xH2O --> 2 HOCl + xH2O + Na2C2O4 (s)

2 HOCl + 2 H2C2O4 --> 2 HCl + 4 CO2 (g) + 2 H2O

but repeating the 1st reaction to form more HOCl, we have also some Chlorine:

2 HCl + 2 HOCl <---> 2 Cl2 (g) + 2 H2O

Net:

2 H2C2O4 + 4 NaOCl + xH2O --> 2 Cl2 (g) + 4 CO2 (g) + (x+4)H2O + 2 Na2C2O4 (s)


[Edited on 9-8-2012 by AJKOER]
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