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Morgan
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CDC
Epidemiologic Notes and Reports Fatalities Resulting From Sulfuryl Fluoride Exposure After Home Fumigation -- Virginia
http://www.cdc.gov/Mmwr/preview/mmwrhtml/00051658.htm
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watson.fawkes
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Please don't delude yourself. There's no analysis going on here. There barely any
discussion, even.
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Morgan
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The ADA warns not to mix tap water with baby formula the first 12 months and other tidbits. Anyone want to talk about that?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1SYgUi_f5yY#t=1m52s
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2010/11/1...
[Edited on 6-6-2012 by Morgan]
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Morgan
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Fluoride Risks for Kidney Patients (Wide Screen Version) Anybody think this doesn't make sense just to be on the safe side?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=utB94Jee0Os
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Morgan
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Some Dog Foods May Deliver Toxic Doses of Fluoride
http://www.thedailygreen.com/environmental-news/latest/dog-f...
Dog Food Contaminated with Levels of Fluoride Above EPA's Legal Limit for Humans
http://www.ewg.org/pethealth/report/fluoride-in-dog-food/new...
"In Bone Meal (which can contain 1000 ppm - or more- fluoride), also included in US EPA List 4 Inerts ("Inerts generally regarded as safe, i.e., corn
cobs and cookie crumbs," according to EPA)."
http://www.apfn.org/apfn/fluoride.htm
Anybody want to discuss this?
[Edited on 7-6-2012 by Morgan]
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Morgan
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An EPA mistake on 4 parts per million for those who like history.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S5oOTkBKXys#t=8m27s
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watson.fawkes
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No they don't. Please read what the ADA says on the matter. Fluoride and Infant Formula: Frequently Asked Questions. They do not warn to avoid it unilaterally. They hardly say anything against it at all,
much less a warning. Here's what they actually say, from that page: | Quote: |
Yes, it is safe to use fluoridated water to mix infant formula. If your baby is primarily fed infant formula, using fluoridated water might increase
the chance for mild enamel fluorosis, but enamel fluorosis does not affect the health of your child or the health of your child’s teeth. Parents and
caregivers are encouraged to talk to their dentists about what’s best for their child. |
When you rely on
secondary sources that selectively misquote science, please expect to be ignored.
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Morgan
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Brisbane Given Fluoride Overdose
"The water contained 30 to 31mg/L of fluoride instead of the maximum allowable 1.5mg/L."
"The Government had received no complaints yesterday but The Courier-Mail has received several reports of symptoms similar to gastroenteritis."
"Warner mother-of-two Caroline Rossiter said her family, including the dog and cat, had been ill for two weeks."
http://www.fluorideaustralia.org/articleView.asp?Article=2
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Morgan
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Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes  | No they don't. Please read what the ADA says on the matter. Fluoride and Infant Formula: Frequently Asked Questions. They do not warn to avoid it unilaterally. They hardly say anything against it at all,
much less a warning. Here's what they actually say, from that page: | Quote: |
Yes, it is safe to use fluoridated water to mix infant formula. If your baby is primarily fed infant formula, using fluoridated water might increase
the chance for mild enamel fluorosis, but enamel fluorosis does not affect the health of your child or the health of your child’s teeth. Parents and
caregivers are encouraged to talk to their dentists about what’s best for their child. |
When you rely on
secondary sources that selectively misquote science, please expect to be ignored. |
Some "suggestions" are more subtle than others. The EPA said it was perfectly safe before and I guess they changed there mind on the upper limit of 4
ppm. Now they offer a suggestion/warning for babies who just might be very sensitive to fluorides. I'm not a conspiracy theoriest, but I do think
there are a lot of pesticides we don't need in our water.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HltsxLEB0qo#t=32s
[Edited on 7-6-2012 by Morgan]
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Morgan
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"Infants consume little other than breast milk or formula during the first 4 to 6 months of life, and continue to have a high intake of liquids during
the entire first year. Therefore, proportional to body weight, fluoride intake may be higher for younger or smaller children than for older children,
adolescents, or adults."
http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/safety/infant_formula.htm
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Morgan
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"Direct cellular poison"
"Fluorides are widely distributed in the environment and originate naturally from rocks and soil or from industrial processes. Water supplies for
human consumption have been adjusted to contain 1 ppm to prevent dental caries. Fluorine at 1-2 mg/kg in animal rations is considered adequate. The
maximal tolerable level varies by species, eg, 40-50 ppm for cattle and horses, and 200 mg/kg for chickens."
"There is a general correlation between solubility of a fluoride and its toxicity. Of the common fluorides, sodium fluoride is the most toxic, and
calcium fluoride the least toxic. The fluorides of rock phosphates and most cryolites are of intermediate toxicity. Soluble fluorides originating from
industrial fumes or dusts are more toxic than fluoride in rock phosphate."
"Fluoride binds to Ca2+, Mg2+, and Mn2+, acting as a direct cellular poison (including bacterial cells, hence its use in dental hygiene). At high
levels most fluorides are corrosive to tissue. In bone, fluoride binds calcium and replaces the hydroxyl groups in the mineral part of bone, which is
mostly hydroxyapatite. In teeth developed during fluoride ingestion, the enamel is less soluble (protective) and more dense (brittle, if excessive).
In addition, faulty mineralization of teeth and bones occurs when excessive fluoride interferes with intracellular calcium metabolism and damages
ameloblasts and odontoblasts."
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/211...
[Edited on 7-6-2012 by Morgan]
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Morgan
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MATERIAL SAFETY DATA SHEET
SODIUM SILICOFLUORIDE
RECOMMENDED USE:
1. Fluoridation of drinking water.
2. Laundry sours.
3. Opalescent glass.
4. Vitreous enamel frits.
5. Metallurgy of aluminium and verblium.
6. Insecticides and rodenticides.
7. Leather and wood preservatives.
CHRONIC TOXICITY:
"Continuous or intermittent exposure to inorganic fluorides can lead to appreciable accumulation of fluoride in bone, and, to development of
osteosclerosis and other bone changes."
http://www.magitsurplus.com/PDF%20Files/Na2SiF6-MSDS.pdf
FLUOROSILICIC ACID
http://www.fluoridefreewater.ie/msds_fluorosilicic_acid.pdf
"FSA can be partially neutralized by either table salt (sodium chloride) or caustic soda to get sodium fluorosilicate. If enough caustic soda is added
to neutralize the fluorosilicate completely, it results in sodium fluoride."
http://www.cdc.gov/fluoridation/fact_sheets/engineering/wfad...
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mnick12
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Really five posts in a row? Why not just include all this "information" in a single post and prevent the eye sore for the rest of us.
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Morgan
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Sierra Club Conservation Policies Policy on Fluoride in Drinking Water
"Therefore, the Sierra Club believes that communities should have the option to reject mandatory fluoridation of their water supplies."
"To protect sensitive populations, and because safer strategies and methods for preventing tooth decay are now available, we recommend that these
safer alternatives be made available and promoted. If fluoride is added to municipal water supplies, sodium fluoride rather than flourosilicate
compounds should be used because the latter has a greater risk of being contaminated with such heavy metals as lead and arsenic."
http://www.sierraclub.org/policy/conservation/water_fluorida...
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Morgan
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I was reading hexafluorosilicic acid tends to combine with substances in the pipes as it gets to your house, more likely to pick up contaminants.
Seems like a fairly reactive chemical. ha
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oZHje9u2PXE#t=14s
Safety
Hexafluorosilicic acid releases hydrogen fluoride when evaporated, so it has similar risks. It is corrosive and may cause fluoride poisoning;
inhalation of the vapors may cause lung edema. Like hydrogen fluoride, it attacks glass and stoneware.[7] LD50 value of hexafluorosilicic acid is 70
mg/kg (example LD50 for caffeine is 127 mg/kg).[8][9]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hexafluorosilicic_acid
Toxicity of the Products of Biodegradation: The products of degradation are more toxic.
Special Remarks on the Products of Biodegradation: Not available.
http://www.sciencelab.com/msds.php?msdsId=9924083
The Merck Vet Manual ...
Looks like a tube of toothpaste has enough fluoride to potentially kill my less than 4 kilogram dog over 50 times.
"A 100-g tube of fluoride toothpaste may contain 75-500 mg of sodium fluoride, depending on the brand."
"Oral cleaning products present a danger to pets, especially dogs. The fatal dose of sodium fluoride is 5-10 mg/kg and toxic effects occur below 1
mg/kg."
http://www.merckvetmanual.com/mvm/index.jsp?cfile=htm/bc/211...
[Edited on 8-6-2012 by Morgan]
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Endimion17
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There are some real issues with water fluoridation, but most of the efforts against it that I've seen are conjoined with some really funny crackpot
bullshit.
I don't really understand why is water in USA being fluoridated. Don't they use fluoride toothpaste there? European countries use early dental
fluoride profilaxis in a form of gel being applied to teeth for several minutes, sodium fluoride pills and after people grow past their baby teeth,
they use fluoride toothpastes. It seems enough.
Fluoride anion is a common ingredient in tap water, which is actually mineral water. There are some areas with lower concentrations, and there are
some with high concentrations (dental fluorosis is a normal condition there).
I can't really believe the whole USA is depleted of F<sup>-</sup> so that it has to be put in everyone's water. Can someone explain this
to me?
The only profilaxis regarding to halogens, used in Europe, is chlorination of water to prevent infections and iodization of salt to prevent goiter. I
don't really see the neccessity for water fluoridation if we brush our teeth every day.
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Morgan
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There are foods in the US like wines with 2mg per liter of fluoride and white grapes especially are high in fluoride from the "pesticide/fluoride"
they use. Bread is also high in fluoride I read. And for poor dogs they have our fluoridated water and bone meal added to their foods with very high
levels of fluoride in it from cattle bones. Another article said to avoid bone meal for dogs because of that. Beer and Cokes if using fluoridated
water also add up. What if someone phsically active drinks a lot of water too. Maybe they could get up to 8mg per day if eating all the wrong things.
This is a clip from a news program. I like the part about the simple concept of putting on your teeth and that there is no need to ingest it.
Doctor Exposes Fluoride as Poison
http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=endscreen&v=ZvAAaAA...
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Endimion17
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The chance you'll get sick from it is miniscule. As I've said, there are areas of land where waterbed contains lots of soluble fluorides, way more
than potable water for most of Americans. People are fine, except there are more cases of dental fluorosis.
It's not "poisoning the people", that is a too harsh conclusion.
I just don't see the neccessity. What's wrong with chlorine? Chlorine is a staple in the whole world. It fucks up the bacteria just fine. It's
cheaper. OK, some chloramines are produced, but the benefit is much greater. Non chlorinated water would cause epidemics of various diseases, leading
to increased antibiotic battle, and that can't go forever.
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Morgan
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| Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17 | There are some real issues with water fluoridation, but most of the efforts against it that I've seen are conjoined with some really funny crackpot
bullshit.
I agree with that statement 100%. There are some conspiracy loons out there. But I think it's sad that the people who care about the safety of
drinking water can't seem to get the establishment to listen. And yet you can bet the phosphate industry has a lot of people interested in keeping
fluorides in the water. They get to sell a hazardous waste from their chimneys instead of paying to have it sequestered somewhere. I read it's too
expensive to extract the fluoride from the hexafluorosilicic acid and companies would rather import raw minerals instead to get fluoride.
http://imgur.com/JmDJ5
[Edited on 8-6-2012 by Morgan] |
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Morgan
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I hadn't thought about it but there's this other source of fluorides, probably not good for your brain. Forgive me for posting a conspiracy theory,
but it has something true I think and that is big pharm sure sells a lot of potentially harmful drugs that later turn out to be taken off the market.
"This article may be hard for some to swallow (pun intended) however, those who have studied the subject will find it well worth reading, Fluoride
compounds are a the darling of the drug industry. Hence one can find many drugs rife with fluorides. These include SSRI's (selective serotonin
re-uptake inhibitors) all the way to some cholesterol drugs such as Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa to Lipitor. It appears that the judicial use of this
toxin can have many effects all the way from Stupidity...docility to even aggression..."
http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/anxiety-disorders-discussio...
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unionised
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Among the reasons are the fact that they don't add fluoride to water supplies and that the assertion that fluoride causes the asserted problems is
demonstrably false .
BTW, if that looks familiar, it's because I pointed it out earlier.
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Morgan
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| Quote: Originally posted by unionised |
Among the reasons are the fact that they don't add fluoride to water supplies and that the assertion that fluoride causes the asserted problems is
demonstrably false .
BTW, if that looks familiar, it's because I pointed it out earlier.
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I see you live in the UK.
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Endimion17
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| Quote: Originally posted by Morgan | I hadn't thought about it but there's this other source of fluorides, probably not good for your brain. Forgive me for posting a conspiracy theory,
but it has something true I think and that is big pharm sure sells a lot of potentially harmful drugs that later turn out to be taken off the market.
"This article may be hard for some to swallow (pun intended) however, those who have studied the subject will find it well worth reading, Fluoride
compounds are a the darling of the drug industry. Hence one can find many drugs rife with fluorides. These include SSRI's (selective serotonin
re-uptake inhibitors) all the way to some cholesterol drugs such as Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Celexa to Lipitor. It appears that the judicial use of this
toxin can have many effects all the way from Stupidity...docility to even aggression..."
http://www.mdjunction.com/forums/anxiety-disorders-discussio... |
Then you don't know how pharmaceutics work. You seem to imply that these drugs are just some concoctions few people make up in a lab and then they're
put out on the market as a one giant live trial test that makes tons of money for repeating the whole process with another concoction. You couldn't be
more wrong.
Yeah, there are issues with some drugs, there are bad cases, but to condemn it? Ridiculous.
BTW it's fluorine compounds, not fluoride compounds. The very fact that you can't differentiate those two things doesn't help you at
all. Being a member of SM implies that you know the difference.
Fluorine compounds are used because fluorine is similar to chlorine, but not identical. Drugs often take advantage od similar electronic configuration
of atoms. After all, that's why arsenic is very poisonous though similar to phosphorus.
I'll strip the fancy words - you actually said something like: "The conspirators put fluoride in out water and(!!!!11!11!) use the same thing to make
money by selling drugs that make us stupid just like their water".
Do you know how stupid that is? It not only sounds stupid, it is stupid.
America is lethargic not because of the water, but because of other, sociological issues. You're being entertained for several decades. That's the
problem.
As I've said, the rest of the world uses fluorides and fluorine compounds, too, and there are even areas with much higher fluoride content in drinking
water.
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Morgan
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Don't get sick.
"The association of the inhaled anesthetic isoflurane with Alzheimer's-disease-like changes in mammalian brains may by caused by the drug's effects on
mitochondria, the structures in which most cellular energy is produced."
http://www.massgeneral.org/about/pressrelease.aspx?id=1443
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isoflurane
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Endimion17
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First things first, learn how to write replies and posts. You can't mutilate threads like this.
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