Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Miscellaneous » MAPP torch help Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues

Author: Subject: MAPP torch help
99chemicals
Hazard to Others

Posts: 174
Registered: 24-3-2012
Location: In the Octet
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

MAPP torch help

I have this torch that is not working. The flame is not hot and is yellow.

The cylinder is at least 5 years old maybe older. Would the gas degrade over time?

[Edited on 6-13-2012 by 99chemicals]

Do you have mole problems? If so, call Avogadro at 602-1023

bahamuth
National Hazard

Posts: 384
Registered: 3-11-2009
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline

Mood: Under stimulated

Oh, a TurboTorch. Have on just like it, perfectly the same actually..

There is a O-ring gasket at the union of the mixer tube (the hot part with the brass part with air inlets) and the adjustment part, that O-ring is compressed to tight and are blocking the flow of the propane, common thing if you aren't experienced with those. It may of course be a related problem but that is how my flame looks like if the O-ring squashed. Oh.., by the way, it should be threaded and be very easy to unscrew, if not it may be corroded or broken.

Hope this helps

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
99chemicals
Hazard to Others

Posts: 174
Registered: 24-3-2012
Location: In the Octet
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I experimented with the O ring and it did not change the flame noticeably. I took the O ring out and it looks compacted but still a good enough gap for the gas to get through.

Sorry for the blurriness my camera takes great video but the photos don't focus.

Do you have mole problems? If so, call Avogadro at 602-1023

hyfalcon
International Hazard

Posts: 1004
Registered: 29-3-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

Make sure there's no trash down the torch throat. Dirt dauber wasps just love to build in the tube.
99chemicals
Hazard to Others

Posts: 174
Registered: 24-3-2012
Location: In the Octet
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

 Quote: Originally posted by hyfalcon Make sure there's no trash down the torch throat. Dirt dauber wasps just love to build in the tube.

I blasted out the nozzle with my hose.

I think the nozzle is rifled if you get what I am saying. Is that standard or is it actually debris?

Do you have mole problems? If so, call Avogadro at 602-1023

bahamuth
National Hazard

Posts: 384
Registered: 3-11-2009
Location: Norway
Member Is Offline

Mood: Under stimulated

 Quote: Originally posted by 99chemicals I experimented with the O ring and it did not change the flame noticeably. I took the O ring out and it looks compacted but still a good enough gap for the gas to get through. Sorry for the blurriness my camera takes great video but the photos don't focus.

Ok. Let's take the simple yet often neglected things.
As far as I can see from your video, the propane container you use is a refillable one, they tend to atleast in the later years to be filled with an anti rust compound, a oil of sorts which actually fools one to think that the container is partially filled when empty. Another thing about this oil is that is dissolves quite alot of the propane which it releases considerably slower than no oil would, creating the effect that in addition not just to feel full, appers full because the slow release of gas giving that dull flame.

Try unhooking the TurboTorch and manually release gas by pushing the valve pin down on the container, there should be a very large bust of gas and often gas condensate (liq. gas), if this is the case you have enough propane. If not, re-attach the torch and open it fully, you should hear a 'whiiisss' from the released propane, if not the lower parts of the torch are the trouble and need to be cleaned either by counter current pressurised air or dismantled and cleaned. If the from the released propane, if not the lower parts of the torch a is heard, try lighting the air inlet ports, if it burns there the mixing/combustion tube is somehow blocked, even a grain of sand stuck there might be giving the dull flame.

I would thoroughly clean it with pressurised air before attempting any dismanteling or similar.

PS. The O-ring always looks fine when one dismantles the torch, but can be checked by lighting the torch while unscrewing the tube, if the flame is still dull you have an blockage somewhere.

Those things are insanely sturdy, mine has probably survived several hundred nights outside in the Norwegian climate of year round rain and most of the year snow and as such I would not trhow it away before every possibility was explored..
As a sidenote when I mentioned climate, last snow melted half a month ago at home and we had a little snowfall last week

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
99chemicals
Hazard to Others

Posts: 174
Registered: 24-3-2012
Location: In the Octet
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I will try those things tomorrow.

Few things.

The cylinder is MAPP gas. Not sure if it matters.(I know that mapp has propane in it but it is not completely)
The cylinder is not refillable. (On the side it say you have to pay 25,000$fine if refilled) I have not yet removed the torch from the gas cylinder for fear that the pin assembly might not work and waste the gas. I will do that tomorrow and see if there is debris. Also when I open the valve completely there seems to be pressure behind the gas coming out. Thanks Bahamuth [Edited on 6-14-2012 by 99chemicals] Do you have mole problems? If so, call Avogadro at 602-1023 My Youtube Channel bahamuth National Hazard Posts: 384 Registered: 3-11-2009 Location: Norway Member Is Offline Mood: Under stimulated Wow, a 25,000$ fine......

Anyways, the container has a release valve that is used in refilling to let out the non liquified gas so I guessed that it was refillable..

A quick net search revealed that MAPP gas is a methylacetylene and propadiene mix, which I figure is a lot hotter than regualr propane but with a little less heat output. Not that it matters but since I allready found the info..

Saw a refill adapter on ebay for those flasks a little while back so people actually do refill them and in the old days one could go and get a propane refill at gas stations for just those bottles, but today in Norway we can almost only get single use bottles impossible to refill filled with a lot of that oil I mentioned earlier. That oil is actually a pain in the ass when hard-soldering since it may sputter out or follow the gas stream if one turns the torch to max, contaminating the cleaned surfaces with a hard to remove oil. Anyways, just sleepy rambling from me. Hope you get it working again..

Any sufficiently advanced technology is indistinguishable from magic.
99chemicals
Hazard to Others

Posts: 174
Registered: 24-3-2012
Location: In the Octet
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

I took the torch head off of the torch and with out the head on the torch leaks. It means that there is still gas there though. It is probably from being stored all these years with the torch head on.

I found out one good thing though, If I blow through the air intake holes on the nozzle the flame goes blue! Some how the torch is not pulling any air.

I tried cranking up the gas all the way but it just makes a foot long flame and is still yellow.

With the 25,000 from that fine you could buy alot of 3\$ cylinders of propane!

Do you have mole problems? If so, call Avogadro at 602-1023

Neil
International Hazard

Posts: 556
Registered: 19-3-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

MAPP gas is no longer made or sold, that stuff is useful don't waste it! The tube has fins in it to cause the gas to swirl and mix.

The gas jet in the venturi is likely obstructed. Without a fast flow of gas the torch is unable to function. Checked the tiny gas jet hole.

The port on the side of those canisters is a dump vent to prevent over pressure.

One more thing, a number of the later batches of MAPP gas can in faulty canisters and are highly susceptible to failure if the attachment end of the cylinder is bent or torqued.
99chemicals
Hazard to Others

Posts: 174
Registered: 24-3-2012
Location: In the Octet
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

 Quote: Originally posted by Neil MAPP gas is no longer made or sold, that stuff is useful don't waste it! The tube has fins in it to cause the gas to swirl and mix. The gas jet in the venturi is likely obstructed. Without a fast flow of gas the torch is unable to function. Checked the tiny gas jet hole. The port on the side of those canisters is a dump vent to prevent over pressure. One more thing, a number of the later batches of MAPP gas can in faulty canisters and are highly susceptible to failure if the attachment end of the cylinder is bent or torqued.

Do you know why they discontinued? It is still made in Australia and probably other countries.

The little nozzle with the very tiny hole in it is not able to be removed. It is inside of the torch head. It is hard to explain.

The air holes nozzle and the little gas restricting screw is all one piece! The nozzle is screwed in but there is no way to unscrew it.

I also tried to blast out the nozzle with compressed air and i could feel that the compressed air did not want to go in. I will try to get some hose to connect the compressed air hose to the end of the tube so I can blast whatever the hell the thing in there is out!

Do you have mole problems? If so, call Avogadro at 602-1023

Neil
International Hazard

Posts: 556
Registered: 19-3-2008
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

All of the world's MAPP gas was made by a Canadian company. They decided to divert their propadien to plastics and as a result there is currently no production plants for MAPP anywhere. Some companies still sell as gas labled as MAPP but if you msds them you will find they are propalyne gas. It is also sold as mappro mpspro and a host of other gibberish to cover the fact that the good stuff is gone.

 Sciencemadness Discussion Board » Fundamentals » Miscellaneous » MAPP torch help Select A Forum Fundamentals   » Chemistry in General   » Organic Chemistry   » Reagents and Apparatus Acquisition   » Beginnings   » Responsible Practices   » Miscellaneous   » The Wiki Special topics   » Technochemistry   » Energetic Materials   » Biochemistry   » Radiochemistry   » Computational Models and Techniques   » Prepublication Non-chemistry   » Forum Matters   » Legal and Societal Issues