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Author: Subject: Sodium Nitrate
Ral123
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[*] posted on 11-8-2012 at 03:46


NaNO3 need quite more fuel then AN. I'm pretty sure that NaNO3/fuel can detonate if dry, very consistently mixed, with big diameter booster no less powerful then anfo. It's just a matter of confinement and diameter. Btw do you guys have any idea how much ng/egdn do I need to add to KNO3/sugar or NaNO3/sugar to make it explosive like for example UN. Btw UN may be low energy but unlike anfo UN can be detonated with AP only, and at it's maximum density, witch makes it much more brisant.
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hissingnoise
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[*] posted on 11-8-2012 at 03:53


Alkali nitrate fuel mixtures have bee around for quite a while now and have never been shown to detonate!
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 11-8-2012 at 04:06


oh come on, if it's perfect, and the fuel is some good energy density like benzene and the diameter and density is big with enough confinement.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EyBK-__fvdw
at 0:40 there are rockets
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Emmasis
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[*] posted on 11-8-2012 at 10:31


Btw.. What is it in diesel fuel that makes it so widely used?
What about say "octane booster" or Carburetor cleaner or Mass air flow sensor cleaner?
I also have some extremely high VOC professional auto paint reducers, Hardeners and solvents that I have no use for anymore

Just out of curiosity
thank you again for all the great feedback!!!

[Edited on 11-8-2012 by Emmasis]

[Edited on 11-8-2012 by Emmasis]
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 11-8-2012 at 10:36


The better non nitrated fuel would be hexamine of naphtalene, specially hexamine I've heard. But the concept of anfo is to be cheap, so why waste exotic stuff.
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Emmasis
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[*] posted on 13-8-2012 at 19:14


I am not trying to beat a dead horse but is this a safe action for my Sodium Nitrate?Sodium into Ammonium Nitrate
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 13-8-2012 at 19:53


That process is an absolute stupidity for practical uses. If you have dosens of kilos of bisulfate, then you can distill fine white fuming nitric acid.
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AJKOER
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[*] posted on 16-8-2012 at 11:33


As I understand the history of NaNO3, it was, at one time, employed in the manufacture of gunpowder and actually used in artillery shells in World War I.
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Emmasis
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[*] posted on 16-8-2012 at 22:31


Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
That process is an absolute stupidity for practical uses. If you have dosens of kilos of bisulfate, then you can distill fine white fuming nitric acid.


I agree, but what about the conversion into AN?
I have 6# of Sodium Nitrate I have no use for and my buddy owns a large commercial pool service company.
I can get bisulfate at cost.
probably free, they have 55 gal. Drums of chems all over their storage.

Thoughts?

[Edited on 17-8-2012 by Emmasis]
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badabooom
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[*] posted on 17-8-2012 at 02:24


I would have to agree that distilling Nitric acid from NaNO3 would be the most sensible thing to do if you intend to make HE, if you are going to be a pyro then I would say it would best be spent as an oxidiser for blackpowder and rocket fuel. Although you cannot directly substitute NaNO3 for the KNO3 in the rocket candy fuel as it becomes self extinguishing and extremely hydroscopic.

What I have found works well is a mixture of NaNO3/Sucrose and Mannitol. But then again you are faced with choices, do you want to make HE; then rather use the Mannitol for MHN and the NaNO3 for the HNO3. If you wanna go pyro then you already have your answer.
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Emmasis
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[*] posted on 17-8-2012 at 05:35


Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
That process is an absolute stupidity for practical uses. If you have dosens of kilos of bisulfate, then you can distill fine white fuming nitric acid.


I agree, but what about the conversion into AN?
I have 6# of Sodium Nitrate I have no use for and my buddy owns a large commercial pool service company.
I can get bisulfate at cost.

Thoughts?
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badabooom
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[*] posted on 17-8-2012 at 05:42


I suppose in your situation where you already have the chemicals and nothing else in mind that in would be worthwhile converting it into AN, its not the best way but like I said you already have the stuff so...
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Emmasis
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[*] posted on 18-8-2012 at 17:16


What would you suggest?


Quote: Originally posted by badabooom  
I suppose in your situation where you already have the chemicals and nothing else in mind that in would be worthwhile converting it into AN, its not the best way but like I said you already have the stuff so...
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Fossil
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[*] posted on 18-8-2012 at 17:34


Nitrate salt, sodium bisulfate, ammonia solution.

Equimolar ammounts of nitate and NaHSO4 in solution (solutions combined)
ammonia solution added until whole mix is basic
Fractional crystalization to get NH4NO3
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Emmasis
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[*] posted on 1-9-2012 at 11:39


What if I expose it (under pressure) to NO2?
-or-
Fumigate it with a Hexane Solvent?


[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Emmasis]

[Edited on 1-9-2012 by Emmasis]
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AJKOER
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[*] posted on 3-9-2012 at 05:18


Add Oxalic acid (H2C2O4) to a hot NaNO3 solution and filter out the Sodium oxalate (Na2C2O4). Carefully add pure ammonia to the solution (note, use of excess H2C2O4 will create the low solubility (NH4)2C2O4 salt). Concentrate the solution and cool to harvest the NH4NO3. Reactions:

2 NaNO3 + H2C2O4 => Na2C2O4 (s) + 2 HNO3

NH3 + HNO3 = NH4NO3

The advantage over Fossil synthesis is avoiding fractional crystalization to remove the Na2SO4 impurity. As NaHSO4 is around the same in price, the only downside is H2C2O4 has some toxicity issues so avoid inhalation of dust and skin contact (read its MSDS).


[Edited on 3-9-2012 by AJKOER]
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