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Author: Subject: Hypothetical Photographic Process
krfkeith
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[*] posted on 6-9-2012 at 07:18
Hypothetical Photographic Process


I've been playing around with alternative film chemistry, and I realized there isn't really a yellow counterpart to the cyanotype, a xanthotype so to speak. There are some processes which result in a pinkish or red color, but none for yellow. Anyway, just out of my own curiosity, I have been trying to figure out a way to develop a so-called xanthotype. Of course, I could cheat and use a generic process which works with any pigment, but where's the fun in that?

The blue color of cyanotypes come from prussian blue. My attempts thus far have been to use yellow iron oxide, Iron (III) Oxide-Hydroxide monohydrate. Of course there needs to be some sort of light sensitive chemical to expose. Nitric acid seems to be a good candidate. Nitric acid reacts with iron to form the nearly colorless Iron (III) Nitride. When nitric acid is exposed to light, it decomposes to water, nitrogen dioxide, and oxygen. The question is, how do I get the iron to oxidize specifically to the yellow form?

Is this idea even feasible? Do you guys have any other ideas on yellow, alternative, photographic processes? I'm trying to avoid anything which uses things like platinum, palladium, gold, or silver.
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woelen
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[*] posted on 7-3-2013 at 08:12


I missed your post of half a year ago and I hope it still is relevant for you.

I have developed a process for yellow toning, based on vanadium ferrocyanide. I have written an article about this subject. Only easy to obtain chemicals are needed.

The following is a page on my website about ferrocyanide based toning and it contains a link to the article I have written on this subject.

http://woelen.homescience.net/science/photo/toners/ferrocyan...

[Edited on 7-3-13 by woelen]




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CHRIS25
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[*] posted on 7-3-2013 at 13:46


I am sure you are aware of some of the bleaching processes that force the blue in cyanotype to fade away; but I have a formula for yellow that to date I have not tried. You could experiment with either direct immersion without the bleaching process or bleach a little and then submerge in a solution of trisodium phophate at one tablespoon to one pint of water, make sure the water is warm and submerge the cyanotype in this for anywhere between 20 minutes to 40 mins.

I have though experimented with many colours with cyanotype so if you want tips please feel free to ask.




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woelen
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[*] posted on 7-3-2013 at 23:28


I knew that method. It is based on the fact that the blue ferro ferricyanide is not stable at high pH and decomposes to Fe(OH)3 and ferrocyanide. The Fe(OH)3 causes a yellow/brown stain. From personal experience I found the color to be too faint. The vanadium-based toner gives very nice bright yellows which can be combined with blue in the same process to obtain bright greens (like grass) or cyan color.



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CHRIS25
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[*] posted on 8-3-2013 at 00:13


Slightly disorientated here Woelen, I understand that ferri- oxidizes to ferro during the exposure to UV, and then the insoluble ferro is washed away in the water. But you used the words: ... blue ferro ferricyanide is not stable at high pH ... I presume by this that you mean there are ferro and ferri ions existing together after the UV, which I did not think was the case. And secondly : ... it is unstable at high PH ...do you happen to know how high? since we use acids in various strengths and solutions to aid and assist in permanence and increasing tonals and I often wondered how concentrated I could make a solution.

PS do you have a recipe for Mauve type violet, I made it one day by accident and after numerous tests could never repeat it ever, that was soooo dissappointing. Just had to ask.




‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)

Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)

The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by precision and law. (me)
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woelen
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[*] posted on 8-3-2013 at 04:20


The deep blue color in blue toner and also in the cyanotype process is due to a compound, sometimes written as KFeFe(CN)6. This compound contains iron(II) and iron(III) in the same complex ion [FeFe(CN)6](-) and it is this combination which gives the deep blue color. This complex decomposes at moderately high pH (e.g. 11) to form Fe(OH)3 and [Fe(CN6)](4-). The latter is a very pale yellow ion and goes in solution. The Fe(OH)3 is a brown solid.



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[*] posted on 8-3-2013 at 05:08


Thankyou Woelen, I should have read my literature in more detail. I misinterpreted High PH to mean 1 or 2. otherwise High acidic. Stupid.



‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)

Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)

The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by precision and law. (me)
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[*] posted on 23-10-2013 at 01:40


I came across this book which is rather interesting and useful:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/tech/photograph...
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[*] posted on 23-10-2013 at 22:07


Quote: Originally posted by sonogashira  
I came across this book which is rather interesting and useful:
http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/tech/photograph...


Did you go looking further on the site? I found there is a wealth of old books and papers there.

http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/catalogs/bysubject-to...

One caught my eye:

http://www.worldwideschool.org/library/books/sci/chemistry/O...

"On account of the impossibility of obtaining the less common organic chemicals in the United States during the past few years, university laboratories have had no option but to prepare their own supplies."

While this was written about universities in early WWII, it appears equally pertinent today for the amateur experimenter. Things are getting harder to obtain and this fairly short book contains many interesting procedures.





"Science is the belief in the ignorance of the experts" Richard Feynman
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