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math
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cheapest aluminium metal sources?
Hello,
I'd like to know what are the cheapest sources for aluminium metal. I've been using Al foil for food, but I think there should be some cheaper
alternatives.
Thank you
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99chemicals
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Go to your local scrap yard and ask to buy aluminum.
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kristofvagyok
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Scrap yard +1.
P.S.: aluminium foil is not pure, if it would be from pure Al it wouldn't spark if you would "test" it in your microwave oven. The kitchen Al foil
contains iron, Ni, ect, so it's NOT pure.
I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:
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AirCowPeaCock
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Neither is a lot (most) "Al" you would get at a scrap yard. Alloys are every where, it's hard (almost ImpossIble) to find any metal that is not an
alloy these days.
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bbartlog
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If you need high purity Al then aluminum electrical wiring is a good bet. Has to be high purity in order to have an acceptable electrical
conductivity.
The less you bet, the more you lose when you win.
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AirCowPeaCock
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Interesting, what impurities are the issue? Iron from Bauxite? Silicon from Aluminum Silicate? Calcium from the Hall-Héroult process?
[Edited on 9-7-2012 by AirCowPeaCock]
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food
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I looked into this a while back
this is from a Reynolds faq item, about a year ago:
"Today, Reynolds Wrap is made from 8111 alloy aluminum, at the thickest gauge specifications available in the marketplace. Reynolds Wrap® Aluminum
Foil is 98.5% aluminum. The balance is primarily iron and silicon. These are added to give the strength and puncture resistance obtained only in the
alloy used in Reynolds Wrap® Aluminum Foil."
this is interesting re. aluminium wire:
https://www.rtapublicsales.riotinto.com/En/OurGlobalNetwork/...
http://www.mwswire.com/specialalum.htm
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Hexavalent
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The technology department at my school gives me all the pure aluminium shavings I need, collected from the bottom of the lathe base.
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill
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99chemicals
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Quote: Originally posted by Hexavalent  | | The technology department at my school gives me all the pure aluminium shavings I need, collected from the bottom of the lathe base.
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I was going to mention that but, usually when cutting al lubricants are used an those would seem to be a mess to clean.
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Endimion17
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Stiff electrical cables are very cheap sources of high purity aluminium. They contain several thick wires wrapped in a helix. There's some powder
inside; I suppose it is used to rubberize the metal more easily. It's easy to unwind the thick helix and then snap the wire into bits. All you need to
do it a quick wash in dilluted hydrochloric acid, rinsing with tap water and distilled water. It's somewhat entertaining to destroy a large cable to
make a bottle of aluminium chips.
I don't know what metals are in a coaxial cable, but that foil inside reminds me of aluminium.
[Edited on 7-9-2012 by Endimion17]
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Swede
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Any aluminum you are going to find at a scrap yard, or via lathe turnings, is going to be an alloy, and some of them have significant amounts of
metals other than Al. For example, 7075 Al...
7075 aluminum alloy's composition roughly includes 5.6–6.1% zinc, 2.1–2.5% magnesium, 1.2–1.6% copper, and less than half a percent of silicon,
iron, manganese, titanium, chromium, and other metals.
Maybe some coarse pyrotechnic aluminum might be reasonably pure. Another source might be the soft and crappy aluminum structural extrusions like
you'd find at a hardware store. It's still going to be an alloy, but more Al as a % vs. alloys like 6063. Pure Al is stupid soft and weal, hence the
alloying that goes on at the factory to make the metal stronger and harder.
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watson.fawkes
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These are in the 8000 series of Al
alloys, which series is for "other alloying elements". I was looking at this yesterday, but couldn't find much other than the main alloying elements
were Fe and Ni. What was easier to find is that the design goal for the alloy was to reduce the thermal coefficient of the wire. This makes electrical
contacts more reliable and greatly reduces fire risk over the old 1350 alloy previously used four decades ago and more.
In any case, DIY stores in the US carry this wire as conductors within "service entrance" cable. Go to the cut wire section and ask for it.
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Endimion17
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| Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes | These are in the 8000 series of Al
alloys, which series is for "other alloying elements". I was looking at this yesterday, but couldn't find much other than the main alloying elements
were Fe and Ni. What was easier to find is that the design goal for the alloy was to reduce the thermal coefficient of the wire. This makes electrical
contacts more reliable and greatly reduces fire risk over the old 1350 alloy previously used four decades ago and more.
In any case, DIY stores in the US carry this wire as conductors within "service entrance" cable. Go to the cut wire section and ask for it.
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Ah, crap... 
I never did chemical analysis of this wire, but I don't remember concentrated solutions in hydrochloric acid ever giving even mild color which would
account for iron and nickel. Maybe it's just traces?
Also, unlike aluminium foil, which after dissolving in acid gives dark grey insoluble flakes, such wire was always giving a clear solution, and upon
adding a base, typical white gel-like precipitate would form.
Most of amateur chemists don't require pure aluminium. After all, it's pretty much all about thermite and hydrogen.
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MrHomeScientist
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I've also heard that Al electrical wire is high purity, for best conductance. Even if you could only find alloys, could you not separate the Al from
other metals by exploiting its amphoterism? I.e. dissolve the Al in NaOH solution, and most other metals should drop out as hydroxides. Not sure how
you would get back aluminum metal from the sodium aluminate formed, though. Perhaps electrolysis, like how it is produced industrially (the
Hall-Heroult process)? It'd be a hell of a task building such a cell, I imagine.
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watson.fawkes
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| Quote: Originally posted by Endimion17 | | I never did chemical analysis of this wire, but I don't remember concentrated solutions in hydrochloric acid ever giving even mild color which would
account for iron and nickel. Maybe it's just traces? |
Well, these 8000-series alloys are required for
building code compliance in the US. I don't know if they're required elsewhere in the world. The 1350 alloy is 99.5% Al, with the rest as Fe and Si
(as I recall from reading yesterday). I was a bit surprised not to find alloy composition for the 8000 alloys I was looking for, but I did get the
impression that alloying elements were fairly small.
I'll correct an omission of mine from before. If you want very pure aluminum metal, go to a metals supplier and get some Al alloy 1099. This is 99.99%
pure Al. It's only used in specialty applications (such as bus bars) because it doesn't have good mechanical strength over alloys and it requires a
certain amount of fabrication care. The "0" designator in that alloy number means that there's no alloying agent added intentionally. You can think of
1099 aluminum as being the technical grade chemical coming right out of the foundry, before alloying modifications.
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99chemicals
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hmm. I do not know what the content of Al heat sinks are but I doubt that they have much to make them stronger.
Any body know If there is an alloy in them? Perhaps some copper?
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Swede
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Those heat sinks are going to be alloyed, and most of them anodized to boot. You could strip the anodize with an alkali, but again, I'm pretty sure
they'd be a harder Al alloy.
I like the AL1099 suggestion.
Does anyone think my notion for coarse, bright pyro aluminum might have merit? I'd think they'd make the stuff using ingots straight from an Al
foundry. There'd be little point in alloying it first.
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AirCowPeaCock
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I'm pretty sure the -325 mesh bright Al and -80 mesh flake Al I have is from alloys. Pyrotechnic magnalium and magnesium is known to sometimes ruin
color because it's made from alloys. I think most pyrotechnic Al is going to be made from scrap. But, pyro dark Al like German dark and Indian
Blackhead are made to high specifications and theirs a huge international market for them in everything from spaceflight to fireworks to military. I
bet quality is not compromised for price in this Al--it's probably made from the best Al they can get (within reason) although that may mean it is an
alloy, it probably doesn't. I would think pyro dark Al is 99.9%+ purity. Don't take my word for it though.
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SM2
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How about cans? Classically, Al factories were located at Niagara Falls where the cheep electricity made electrolyzing the bauxite even cheaper. I
think there are many ways to get Al for free/next to nothing. Don't forget your labor costs. And don't forget, most Al's are alloys - as others have
pointed out, if that makes a difference to you. If quality consistency is important for you, you can ask best quote for ingots, and or/shavings. Best.
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barley81
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"German dark" Al is coated with charcoal (or so I've heard).
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Hexavalent
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Would it be stuck on in any way?
Could you add some to water, swirl and pass through a sieve or decant quickly to remove the suspended carbon?
BTW, this guy;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EIkhTb-m2cM&feature=plcp
says that the darkness has to do with a difference in particle shape. See 2:59.
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill
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hyfalcon
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I don't think water and fine aluminum powder gets along very well.
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rivetboi
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| Quote: Originally posted by watson.fawkes |
I'll correct an omission of mine from before. If you want very pure aluminum metal, go to a metals supplier and get some Al alloy 1099. This is 99.99%
pure Al. It's only used in specialty applications (such as bus bars) because it doesn't have good mechanical strength over alloys and it requires a
certain amount of fabrication care. The "0" designator in that alloy number means that there's no alloying agent added intentionally. You can think of
1099 aluminum as being the technical grade chemical coming right out of the foundry, before alloying modifications. |
All 1XXX aluminum alloys are 99% pure. I think the pure wiring alloy you are thinking of is 1199, the high conductivity oxygen free alloy. It is
99.99% aluminum with the remainder being mostly iron, silicon, copper and magnesium. For finer purity aluminum there are sputtering grades. The most
pure i know of is 6N High Purity Aluminum. It is 99.9999% aluminum and is made through and for vapor deposition. You can buy a 2.2 lbs (1kg) bag of 6N
pellets from Laurand Associates (http://www.laurand.net) for $1550 plus $50 s&h. Not so cheap but very pure.
For the pretty pure but cheap, try getting the 1100 from McMaster-Carr (http://www.mcmaster.com). It is 99.9% aluminum with no silicon or iron and they sell a 6"x6"x.125" sample block for $5.68 + s&h.
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phlogiston
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Perhaps sacrificial anodes for ship hulls?
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S.C. Wack
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I wasn't going to say anything because it's not perfectly on-topic, but geez get the 1100-H14 sheet at onlinemetals. Shipping is UPS and also not
cheap.
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