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rstar
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how to make Oxalic acid ?
da subject says the question.
but are there any simple and easy ways to make the ox acid ?
i've heard about 'the nitic acid oxidising sucrose' technique, but i dont hav conc. HNO3 or V2O5,
help...
"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
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Pyro
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If you want to make it for use I suggest you buy it from some garden shop. they sell it to bleach wooden garden furniture.
if you are asking out of interest, how about making HNO3?
all above information is intellectual property of Pyro.  |
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rstar
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i wanna make it
(if i cant then i will buy )
pls tell some methods to make it
"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
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weiming1998
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Quote: Originally posted by rstar  | da subject says the question.
but are there any simple and easy ways to make the ox acid ?
i've heard about 'the nitic acid oxidising sucrose' technique, but i dont hav conc. HNO3 or V2O5,
help... |
Oxidation of ethylene glycol. The final product would be oxalic acid (if CO2 is not counted). I'm not sure how you would prevent the accidental
oxidation of the oxalic acid to CO2.
I found two other processes on Wikipedia, one being the carbonylation of alcohols (practically impossible at home) and the other being the hydrolysis
of cyanogen (Extremely toxic!)
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watson.fawkes
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As I recall, the old method is roasting cellulosic
material with caustic soda (NaOH). I don't have a reference handy, but it goes back to 19th c. industry, so expect unfamiliar kinds of sources.
Perhaps check a compendium of the chemical industry prior to WW I.
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rstar
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| Quote: Originally posted by weiming1998 |
I found two other processes on Wikipedia, one being the carbonylation of alcohols (practically impossible at home) and the other being the hydrolysis
of cyanogen (Extremely toxic!) |
thats why i wanted some simple and easy techniques
and btw how to get ethylene glycol  ?
@watson.fawkes
can ya write an equation for cellulose + NaOH ?
"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
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AJKOER
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Before you start, Oxalic acid has commercial applications as a stain and rust remover. As such, it is commercial available and even if you do not have
HNO3, someone in the business of making compounds, would probably be manufacturing it for sale.
Ways to prepare include reacting nitrogen and acetylene with an an electrical spark or discharge (this is the cyanogen route), and repeat the
historical experiment of Wöhler in 1824 with the treatment of the toxic cyanogen with aqueous ammonia, which also produces urea as a white
crystalline solid. This represented the first synthesis of a known natural product.
With respect to the toxic cyanogen preparation (not recommended generally and certainly without necessary safety equipment including fume hood, gas
mask, etc.), per Wikipedia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanogen ) to quote:
"Cyanogen is typically generated from cyanide compounds. One laboratory method entails thermal decomposition of mercuric cyanide:
2 Hg(CN)2 → (CN)2 + Hg2(CN)2
Alternatively, one can combine solutions of copper(II) salts (such as copper(II) sulfate) with cyanides, an unstable copper(II) cyanide is formed
which rapidly decomposes into copper(I) cyanide and cyanogen.[7]
2 CuSO4 + 4 KCN → (CN)2 + 2 CuCN + 2 K2SO4
Industrially, it is created by the oxidation of hydrogen cyanide, usually using chlorine over an activated silicon dioxide catalyst or nitrogen
dioxide over a copper salt. It is also formed when nitrogen and acetylene are reacted by an electrical spark or discharge.[8]"
There are also other industrial routes to quote from a good source (page 4 at http://www.scribd.com/doc/30134128/Oxalic-Acid ) :"Many industrial processes have been employed for the manufacture of oxalic acid since it was
first synthesized. The following processes are in use worldwide: oxidation of carbohydrates, the ethylene glycol process, the propylene process,
the dialkyl oxalate process, and the sodium formate process."
Also, "The sodium formate process is comprised of six steps: (1) the manufacture of sodium formate from carbon monoxide and sodium hydroxide, (2)
manufacture of sodium oxalate by thermal dehydrogenation of sodium formate at 360◦C, ( 3) manufacture of calcium oxalate (slurry), (4) recovery
of sodium hydroxide, (5) decomposition of calcium oxalate where gypsum is produced as a by-product, and (6) purification of crude oxalic acid.
This process is no longer economical in the leading industrial countries."
After review of the above, I hope your conclusion is the best path is to just buy it, which would be the cheapest and safest path.
[Edited on 8-10-2012 by AJKOER]
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rstar
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| Quote: Originally posted by AJKOER | Before you start, Many industrial processes have been employed for the manufacture of oxalic acid since it was first synthesized. The following
processes are in use worldwide: oxidation of carbohydrates, the ethylene glycol process, the propylene process, the dialkyl oxalate process, and the
sodium formate process.
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oxidation of carbohydrates.....
can it be done using KMnO4 ?
"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
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blogfast25
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Even if it could be done (I don't know) you end up with a virtually inseparable mess of oxalic acid, an Mn2+ salt and excess acid. Come to think of
it, Mn(II) oxalate, as most oxalates, is either very sparingly soluble or insoluble, so you'd end up with that. Extricating the pure oxalic acid from
it is difficult and certainly not worth the trouble. So let the industrial wizzkids do the work and buy some. There's so much interesting stuff to be
done with OA that it's better to concentrate on that, rather than frustratingly try to synthesise minute amounts of it.
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watson.fawkes
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Nope. Didn't study the process in detail, which also why I
don't have a handy reference for you either.
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Hexavalent
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Any ideas? I've done the usual stuff, e.g. pyrophoric iron, preparation of salts etc...
"Success is going from failure to failure without loss of enthusiasm." Winston Churchill
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CHRIS25
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Can be prepared simply with Rhubarb. I saw it somewhere and must find it again myself because I need some oxalic acid for many different uses in my
photography.
Just found a quick recipe here:
http://www.ehow.com/how_5941703_extract-oxalic-acid-rhubarb-...
[Edited on 8-10-2012 by CHRIS25]
and here is another one:
http://www.nuffieldfoundation.org/practical-chemistry/rates-...
[Edited on 8-10-2012 by CHRIS25]
‘Calcination… is such a Separation of Bodies by Fire, as makes ‘em easily reducible into Powder; and for that reason ‘tis call’d by some
Chymical Pulverization.’ (John Friend, Chymical Lectures London, 1712)
Right is right, even if everyone is against it, and wrong is wrong, even if everyone is for it. (William Penn 1644-1718)
The very nature of Random, Chance development precludes the existence of Order - strange that our organic and inorganic world is so well defined by
precision and law. (me)
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AJKOER
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| Quote: Originally posted by CHRIS25 | | Can be prepared simply with Rhubarb. I saw it somewhere and must find it again myself because I need some oxalic acid for many different uses in my
photography..... |
Per this link (http://www.independent.co.uk/life-style/science-molecule-of-... ): Rubarb contains about 1/2 of 1% of Oxalic acid. Now, as Rubarb isn't exactly
cheap to acquire (unless you are a farmer) and as it is a laxative, this could be quite a synthesis.
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cal
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Oxalic acid
| Quote: Originally posted by rstar | da subject says the question.
but are there any simple and easy ways to make the ox acid ?
i've heard about 'the nitic acid oxidising sucrose' technique, but i dont hav conc. HNO3 or V2O5,
help... |
In 1919, it was found that Oxalic acid could be prepared from Acetylene, nitric acid and mercuric nitrate. J. Am. Chem. Soc., 1923, 45 (3), pp
795–799
Oxalic acid production by Aspergillus niger:
an oxalate-non-producing mutant produces
citric acid at pH 5 and in the presence
of manganese
http ://mic.sgmjournals.org/content/145/9/2569.full.pdf
A method for the preparation of oxalic acid from sawdust
Citation
Alcock, Joseph R. (1923) A method for the preparation of oxalic acid from sawdust. Bachelor's thesis, California Institute of Technology. http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechETD:etd-02042005-103712 http://thesis.library.caltech.edu/487/
Production of oxalic acid via the nitric acid oxidation of hardwood (red oak) sawdust Jack M. Sullivan , Joseph W. Williard , David L. White , Yong K.
Kim
Ind. Eng. Chem. Prod. Res. Dev., 1983, 22 (4), pp 699–709
Sugar Oxidation, Saccharic and Oxalic Acids by the Nitric Acid Oxidation of Dextrose C. L. Mehltretter , C. E. Rist
J. Agric. Food Chem., 1953, 1 (12), pp 779–783
DOI: 10.1021/jf60012a005
Publication Date: September 1953
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rstar
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any sources where i can buy OXA ?
"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
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elementcollector1
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McLendon's, Ace Hardware, Home Depot, etc. Sold as "Davy's Oxalic Acid" or simply "Wood Bleach". The one I bought was expensive, though...
Elements Collected:52/87
Latest Acquired: Cl
Next in Line: Nd
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MrHomeScientist
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I found mine at a boating store, sold as crystals in a plastic bottle. It's used as wood bleach for the decks of boats.
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rstar
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any other sources?
"A tidy laboratory means a lazy chemist "
- Jöns Jacob Berzelius
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watson.fawkes
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Oxalic Acid from
Sawdust - Optimum Conditions for Manufacture
Donald F. Othmer , Carl H. Gamer , Joseph J. Jacobs
Ind. Eng. Chem., 1942, 34 (3), pp 262–267
DOI: 10.1021/ie50387a003
http://pubs.acs.org/doi/abs/10.1021/ie50387a003
Yep, that Othmer. Roasting temperature is about 200 °C. Acetic acid is a co-product. Methanol and formic acid are by-products.
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learningChem
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So, that link goes to some site where fucktards want 40 something dollars to access some two pages pdf? What's the point of linking that kind of
garbage?
so called 'public access' self-parody?
[Edited on 15-12-2013 by learningChem]
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confused
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its used as a stain remover for ferric chloride stains
http://www.farnell.com/datasheets/316649.pdf
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violet sin
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@ learningchem: the link goes to a paper that can be requested if you are interested, in the wanted references and needed translations (9) thread. a
lill further up thread here though, is another link ( by cal ) that goes to a thesis paper.
" Alcock, Joseph R. (1923) A method for the preparation of oxalic acid from sawdust. Bachelor's thesis, California Institute of Technology. http://resolver.caltech.edu/CaltechETD:etd-02042005-103712 http://thesis.library.caltech.edu/487/ " you can view the whole thing there in pdf. totally diff paper, but if you don't feel like requesting
its ready for a read thru.
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blogfast25
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Yeah, I mean, the American Chemical Society, they really are the dregs of the world of science, aren't they? (Not)
Hint: wrong. While I would prefer all science to be open source, running a science journal cost money and as any business they need to recoup that and
make a profit. Much of what is peer reviewed science is now behind pay walls (but if you search deep, chances are you'll find a free version of the
article somewhere), but it was always kind of thus: subscriptions to science journals aren't free and never were.
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S.C. Wack
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It's known as giving references.
| Quote: Originally posted by violet sin | | the link goes to a paper that can be requested if you are interested, in the wanted references and needed translations (9) thread.
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Hard to believe, but it's already been posted, more than once. The subject somehow came up before.
[Edited on 15-12-2013 by S.C. Wack]
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macckone
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One source not mentioned is the extraction from barkeeper's friend and similar cleaners. Not exactly a chemistry reaction but a good reasonably safe
extraction (don't ignite the acetone).
http://www.erowid.org/archive/rhodium/chemistry/oxalic.otc.h...
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