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Author: Subject: Nitric Acid Synthesis
entropy51
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:06


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
I have made (very weak!) HNO3 from decomposing Ca(NO3)2 before.
Oh did you now? How exactly does that work?
Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
Nitrate was tested by dissolving in water (not completly-CaO/OH = fairly insoluble) adding some NaOH then adding Al granules, no NH3 noted.


WTF? Is this supposed to be a test for nitrate? Or what? Your chemistry seems to be as confused as your spelling.
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Picric-A
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:11


yea ACTUALLY, NaOH + NO3- + Al does give off ammonia as a test for nitrate.

how does it work?? well you could not be lazy and read the thread, but i guess i could tell you. I heated a copper tube full of Ca(NO3))2 beads with Nichrome wire then passed the evolved gasses through a series of bubblers.
Added NaOH to the resulting solution till a neutral solution was obtained then boiled off to find out roughly how much nitric i made (not a lot).

And yes my spelling is rather off, dislexia and quick typing, but i dont see how that sentence was confusing in any way?!?!?!?

[Edited on 7-9-2009 by Picric-A]
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:21


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  

Added NaOH to the resulting solution till a neutral solution was obtained then boiled off to find out roughly how much nitric i made (not a lot).

And yes my spelling is rather off, dislexia and quick typing, but i dont see how that sentence was confusing in any way?!?!?!?



I guess I'm just slow (I too have dyslexia, but I learned how to spell) but is that supposed to describe a titration? How does boiling off tell you how much nitric you made (not any).

By how does that work, I meant a balanced equation with Gibbs free energies and equilibrium constants that might suggest something at work besides your imagination.

Come to think of it, I think you were misdiagnosed. It isn't "dislexia", whatever that is. It's a combination of arrogance and ignorance.

If you can't play in the yard with the big dogs, it might be better if you stayed on the porch with the other puppies.

For someone who claims to have a license to buy chemicals, it seems odd that you're mucking aroung trying to make HNO3 using some crazy scheme to decompose calcium nitrate fertilizer. I'll wager that you'll have just as much success as you did with your (alleged) contact process plant for sulfuric.

[Edited on 7-9-2009 by entropy51]

[Edited on 7-9-2009 by entropy51]

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by entropy51]
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Picric-A
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:24


Nope it wasnt supposed to describe a titration, hence i put 'roughly' in there...
By working out how much alkali i added (approx) then working out how much nitrate i made (approx) from that how much nitric i made (approx)

Guess i proved you wrong about the nitrate test... i should of mentioned Devarda's alloy is normally used for this but aluminium wokrs just as well and is 1/10 of the price.

Whatever, FUCK YOU!
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Picric-A
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:26


[/rquote] If you can't play in the yard with the big dogs, it might be better if you stayed on the porch with the other puppies. [/rquote]

I think you should take your own advise there, not knowing a simple test for NO3-...




[Edited on 7-9-2009 by Picric-A]
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:29


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
By working out how much alkali i added (approx) then working out how much nitrate i made (approx) from that how much nitric i made (approx)

Whatever, FUCK YOU!


How did you work it out? Sounds like you had constipation.

I see you can spell adolescent obscenities when you want to spell. I guess "dislexia" comes and goes, like your alter egos saber and labxyz.
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Picric-A
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:33


Something called wheight gained... again i quote 'If you can't play in the yard with the big dogs, it might be better if you stayed on the porch with the other puppies'

'I see you can spell adolescent obscenities when you want to spell. I guess "dislexia" comes and goes, like your alter egos saber and labxyz. ' made no sence
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:41


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  

I think you should take your own advise there, not knowing a simple test for NO3-...


It sounds really, really sensitive too. If the NH3 doesn't sting your eyes, there's no nitrate present and your reaction went "to completion".

Thanks for the pointer, but I think I'll stick to the nitrate tests that I knew before being instructed by Picric, saber and labxyz.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:48


You are so dumb... its called damp litmus paper... its funny you are trying to find any small detail to stab at me but it just isnt working... pathetic!
What test it that? brown ring?
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:56


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
You are so dumb... its called damp litmus paper...

A sensitive analytical instrument indeed. Thanks for the chemistry lesson kid. Shouldn't you be working on your homework instead of interrupting adult conversations? Does your mum know you're on your computer when you should be learning how to spell?
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:58


Doesnt need to be sensitive, there is either ammonia there or not, NO3- present or not...

Jesus, your so funny, you should consider that as a job, its probably the only thing your good at!
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:58


The "brown ring" test it is. I think it is a superior test than that using NaOH and Aluminium metal (or Devarda's alloy" because it will not give a false result if ammonium salts are present.

And
Quote:
I see you can spell adolescent obscenities when you want to spell. I guess "dislexia" comes and goes, like your alter egos saber and labxyz.
makes perfect sense.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 15:59


Entropy51 loves the brown ring test for bullshit!



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Picric-A
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:04


Quote: Originally posted by panziandi  
Entropy51 loves the brown ring test for bullshit!


whose that a stab at?
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:09


This is chemistry, we dont do stabbing... Thats for the biologists and medics
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:11


again a crazy joke!
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:11


It was a general joke and play on words relating to analytical chemistry and linking it to the entropy51-saber situation, well... the now entropy51-picricA situation.

Anyway, your method of preparing "nitric acid" will produce nitrogen dioxide, which dissolves in water forming nitrous and nitric acids, dissolving nitrogen oxides to make nitric acid is not the way to go really. Should have double decomposed your calcium nitrate it with sodium/potassium sulphate, used the sodium/potassium nitrate to react with sulphuric acid giving concentrated nitric acid.




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entropy51
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:11


Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
Quote: Originally posted by panziandi  
Entropy51 loves the brown ring test for bullshit!


whose that a stab at?


The research lab license, the contact sulfuric plant, the ripping off of fellow forum members.

And 95% of your so-called posts.

Quote: Originally posted by Picric-A  
Doesnt need to be sensitive, there is either ammonia there or not, NO3- present or not...
Spoken like a true chemist! One who has trouble with math in school.

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by entropy51]
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:15


Quote: Originally posted by panziandi  
It was a general joke and play on words relating to analytical chemistry and linking it to the entropy51-saber situation, well... the now entropy51-picricA situation.

Anyway, your method of preparing "nitric acid" will produce nitrogen dioxide, which dissolves in water forming nitrous and nitric acids, dissolving nitrogen oxides to make nitric acid is not the way to go really. Should have double decomposed your calcium nitrate it with sodium/potassium sulphate, used the sodium/potassium nitrate to react with sulphuric acid giving concentrated nitric acid.


Yep that would def. be the better way of doing it but this thread was geared towards decomposing calcium nitrate to produce ntiric acid so i followed along that path then entropy decided to start an argument...
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:16


Yes don't you have school in the morning picric-A? I'm sure your teachers won't appreciate you falling asleep in class... And panziandi, thats a very clever idea. React sat. solutions of each Calcium nitrate and Potassium sulfate, yielding a ppt. of Calcium sulfate and a solution of Potassium nitrate, which, when decanted from the ppt, will crystallise nicely into "needles" of KNO3. But why bother when KNO3 is even more available than the Calcium salt?

And the title is Nitric acid synthesis, so to me that means anything goes, so long as HNO3 is the product. Read the first page ;)

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by DJF90]

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by DJF90]

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by DJF90]
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Picric-A
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:21


Yep i do but i prefer rinsing Entropy off the face of the earth :D

@ DJ - Where i live you cant buy KNO3 OTC but you can buy sack of Nitrochalk for like £3 for 5kg.
Both potassium and sodium sulphate arnt the most soluble so only dilute (K/Na)NO3 solutions could be made so a lot of boiling would be needed.
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entropy51
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:23


Is it just me, or are all these esoteric methods of making HNO3 (as opposed to following 5 centuries of tradition with metal nitrates and H2SO4) just manifestations of pre-pubertal mental masturbation for people who are afraid to go buy some H2SO4? Even 14 year olds can buy it in a hardware store, assuming they don't have one of them fancy chemical licenses like our three-named friend.

But methods to use available OTC nitrates to get to the classical method are definitely of interest.

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by entropy51]

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by entropy51]

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by entropy51]
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:24


I suppose Picric-A probably meant a post in the thread asked specifically about calcium nitrate, I would peronally go that route. OR saturated calcium nitrate solution and add sulphuric acid (fairly strong if not concentrated) that would ppt CaSO4 and leave with a fairly storng nitric acid solution which could be filtered and distilled. It would be better with Ba(NO3)2 this is the method of choice for preparing chloric and perchloric and other acids from barium salts. Should give these methods a go P-A and see how they compare?



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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:27


100g of water will dissolve nearly 50g Na2SO4 at about 32C. See the solubility curve for sodium sulfate. Solubility of NaNO3 is irrelevant as you would evaporate to dryness.
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[*] posted on 7-9-2009 at 16:27


Quote: Originally posted by entropy51  
Is it just me, or are all these esoteric methods of making HNO3 (as opposed to following 5 centuries of tradition with metal nitrates and H2SO4) just manifestations of pre-pubertal mental masturbation for people who are afraid to go to the hardware store and buy some H2SO4?

Unless of course you're Fritz Haber and need to save the bacon in World War I.

[Edited on 8-9-2009 by entropy51]


Im a chemist- i prefer to buy Reagent grade 98% sulphuric acid or 69% Nitric acid if i want it, not crappy 'drain opener' like you probably do!
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