Sciencemadness Discussion Board
Not logged in [Login ]
Go To Bottom

Printable Version  
Author: Subject: 2,6-dinitro-4-diazoresorcinol
dave321
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 22-11-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 3-12-2012 at 13:16
2,6-dinitro-4-diazoresorcinol


hi all,

how would one synthesise the above material ?
it is a precursor to making strontium diazinate, a material proposed for lead free (flat d80-1 type )bullet hits
(which usually use lead styphnate)

i have read all the posts on lead styphnate but a succesful preparation eludes me.

stontium diazinate may be easier.
is it a matter of nitrating resorcinol followed by diazotisation?
thanks
d321
View user's profile View All Posts By User
kristofvagyok
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 659
Registered: 6-4-2012
Location: Europe
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-12-2012 at 14:00


Why is a stontium salt better than a lead salt? Same toxic and not that less sensitive, the only difference is the color of the flameball when you blow up yourself.

Some lead picrate:


The synthesis of styphnic acid is really easy, if you cant prepare that I don't think that you should make diazonium salts.

Also: from styphnic acid you first have to reduce it to 2,4-dinitro-6-amino-resorcinol and then make the diasotation to get the title comound. The problem is: aromatic diazonium compounds like that are not so stable, especially when they form salts with heavier elements like Sr.




I have a blog where I post my pictures from my work: http://labphoto.tumblr.com/
-Pictures from chemistry, check it out(:

"You can’t become a chemist and expect to live forever."
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
dave321
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 22-11-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 4-12-2012 at 14:29


reason for strontium vs lead is the percieved lower toxicity of the strontium salt, rightly or wrongly.

could you post a suggested synth of the diazonium salt ?

it cant be any worse than handling fulminates and only in small scale.

i am trained in lab procedures although not an organic chemist by profession.

my experience is largely with pyro compositions, and i know primaries are not in the same league or ball park

appreciate any help.
see below for patent info
http://osdir.com/patents/Explosive-charges/Pyrotechnic-body-...

d321
View user's profile View All Posts By User
Adas
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 711
Registered: 21-9-2011
Location: Slovakia
Member Is Offline

Mood: Sensitive to shock and friction

[*] posted on 5-12-2012 at 09:34


Wikipedia says that Sr is not toxic, it may be even benefical (against osteoporosis). Only the radioactive isotopes are dangerous. But you can as well make strontium styphnate :D



Rest In Pieces!
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
Boffis
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 1658
Registered: 1-5-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 5-12-2012 at 11:51


The compound you want should be available from styphnic acid.

Styphnic acid can be reduced to the dinitro-monoamino compound by precisely the sample method as used to produce picramic acid discussed elsewhere on this site but 2 possible isomers are possible (2 amino 4,6 dintroresorcinol and 4 amino 2,6 dinitro resorcinol, the later is the one you require but how you seperate them or indeed which on predominates I don't know). This compound can be diazotises under cold fairly acid conditions and the cold solution rendered strong alkaline to turn the diazonium cation in the the anionic diazonate ion. A soluble strontium salt is them added to the solution to precipitate the required salt. I don't know how soluble the strontium salt will be.
View user's profile View All Posts By User
dave321
Harmless
*




Posts: 40
Registered: 22-11-2012
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 8-12-2012 at 14:27


thanks for the info
d321
View user's profile View All Posts By User
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
*****




Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline

Mood: No Mood

[*] posted on 9-12-2012 at 03:48


Quote: Originally posted by Boffis  
2 possible isomers are possible (2 amino 4,6 dintroresorcinol and 4 amino 2,6 dinitro resorcinol, the later is the one you require but how you seperate them or indeed which on predominates I don't know).

I do not think it would matter much whether they are separated.
Either would form diazo compounds.

https://www.sciencemadness.org/whisper/viewthread.php?tid=48...

Styphinic acid can be produced by the action of nitric acid on 3-nitrophenol. An old text states that the reaction proceeds through the transient formation of tetranitro phenol, the nitro group in the 2-position being very reactive, and hydrolysing with water to be replaced with a hydroxyl group.

[Edited on 9-12-2012 by AndersHoveland]




I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
View user's profile Visit user's homepage View All Posts By User
PHILOU Zrealone
International Hazard
*****




Posts: 2879
Registered: 20-5-2002
Location: Brussel
Member Is Offline

Mood: Bis-diazo-dinitro-hydroquinonic

[*] posted on 10-12-2012 at 12:23


Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  

Styphinic acid can be produced by the action of nitric acid on 3-nitrophenol. An old text states that the reaction proceeds through the transient formation of tetranitro phenol, the nitro group in the 2-position being very reactive, and hydrolysing with water to be replaced with a hydroxyl group.


Actually, it is the nitro of position 3 and not 2 that is hydrolysed...because it is in the neightbourghood with two NO2 (one in position 2 and one on position 4); as such it is very prone to nitro-nitrite rearrangement and hydrolysis.
Thus 2,3,4,6-tetranitrophenol turns easily into 2,4,6-trinitroresorcinol.

Also about isomers...
2-amino-4,6-dinitroresorcinol
4-amino-2,6-dinitroresorcinol (equal to 6-amino-2,4-dinitroresorcinol)
are possible

And
2-amino-4,6-dinitroresorcinol will give two isomers upon diazotation because the diazonium is hold between two hydroxy groups.

Thus in fine, if one doesn't serparate the initial molecular mix before diazotation; he will end up with 3 isomeric cyclic diazoniums...

To add a bit to the complexity...there exists also uncyclic diazoniums isomers based on para-quinon structures. As an example 2,4-dinitro-para-aminophenol upon diazotation afwords a stable diazonium salt while the OH group is at the oposite side of the aromatic ring.

[Edited on 11-12-2012 by PHILOU Zrealone]




PH Z (PHILOU Zrealone)

"Physic is all what never works; Chemistry is all what stinks and explodes!"-"Life that deadly disease, sexually transmitted."(W.Allen)
View user's profile View All Posts By User

  Go To Top