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Author: Subject: Preparation of cyanides
mario840
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 06:20


shit , dude that's fantastic :)

write in movie how many you use ferrocyanide, concentration of acid , and how many NaOH you disolved in ethanol or water write it all and send a link :)

BTW. send link to photos too :)
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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 09:15


http://www.youtube.com/user/Myfanwy94#p/a/u/0/K8C2lqzcGhg

here it is. not the best.




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mario840
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 09:27


can i ask you to upload all your photo the best will be in rar files and send link :)

BTW. The video is very nice , well done :)
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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 09:38


okay tomorrow i will upload them^^



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mario840
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 10:04


how much water (ml) did you use to dissolved 17g NaOH ???
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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 10:06


i used 17 or 20ml

[Edited on 30-1-2010 by Myfanwy]




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mr.crow
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[*] posted on 30-1-2010 at 16:31


Quote: Originally posted by Myfanwy  
ok i done the experiment. i made 64 pictures and movies.
i got about 10g of sodium cyanide (55,6%).

the yield could be better. i think to much HCN leaved the Flask gaseous and didnt react with the Lye. I done it outside. The smell of the bitter almonds was really amazing^^love it.

now i will make the movie. i think its ready in 3 hours.


So you let enough HCN gas escape to kill 100 people :p

Definitely need a second bottle of NaOH to bubble the gas through. The video also doesn't mention you put the NaOH solution into the receiver first.

I love the little swirlies when the distillate hits the solution.





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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 02:09


yes they look strange^^ never saw this before.




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mario840
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 02:57


please upload this photo as fas as you can i'll be very greatfully .. because i'm in hurry little :P:)
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Taoiseach
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 04:09


AWESOME :)

Thx for uploading. Please make more videos like that... love it :D

One question: Why didn't you make an ethanolic solution of NaOH? It dissolved quite well in EtOH.

It looks quite wintery in your area (noticed the frost and snow on the ground), so you should use a good bunch of snow to cool your receiver flask to minimize HCN loss.
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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 09:57


@mario

http://rapidshare.com/files/343951606/DSC00380.JPG.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/343952359/DSC00397.JPG.html

http://rapidshare.com/files/343953040/DSC00420.JPG.html

these are the first 3. dont want to upload more today. this is boring =D




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slyder
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 11:22


nice work Myfanwy :)

i have just question would it work if i would use potassium ferrocyanide and dilute H2SO4 50% w/w ? or do i have only to use phosphoric acid if i want to obtain HCN ?

[Edited on 31-1-2010 by slyder]

[Edited on 31-1-2010 by slyder]
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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 12:11


H2SO4 will work too, but some Cyanide will be oxidized to cyanogen (poisonous gas). (CN)2 is very interesting. i just made it one time by heating potassium ferrocyanide with sulfuric acid (96%).
the gas burns with a nice purple-red flame and smells not like bitter almonds.
carl willhelm scheele made it with sulfuric acid. it will work, i tried it 3 times this way.

[Edited on 31-1-2010 by Myfanwy]




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slyder
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 12:15


thanks =)

if i use it in concentration H2SO4 50% throught ferrocyanide way is ok ?


and yet something did you use K4[Fe(CN)6]•3H2O or did you use K4[Fe(CN)6] ?

is it important to use it anhydrous or is not matter ?

[Edited on 31-1-2010 by slyder]
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Myfanwy
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[*] posted on 31-1-2010 at 12:22


i used the trihydrate. doesnt matter if its anhydrous or not.
you can dry your trihydrate at 100°C and you get your anhydrous salt.

i think 50% is a little bit to high concentrated.
i used 38%.

but unfortunately HCN decomposes in hot boiling water(like cyanide salts), so you will lose some.




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mario840
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[*] posted on 4-2-2010 at 05:34


i have a big problem ... i mix ferocyanide 24 g with diluted sulfuric acid 40 ml 40% and heat it ... everything was fine ... the bubbles appers and gas condansate and drop into solution 16 g KOH in 20 ml water but after about 20 - 30 minutes the whole solution turned into YELLOW!!!!! when i add ethanol 95% 100 ml nothing appears :( what I do wrong ???????????????
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[*] posted on 5-2-2010 at 12:56


what happens if i make the HCN bubbling trough a solution of NaOH without cooling it?

The cooling procedure is not a problem where i leave but maybe the yield could be better without this step.
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[*] posted on 6-2-2010 at 11:24


If I was planning on making hydrogen cyanide or potassium cyanide I would find a published procedure and follow it to the letter taking appropriate precautions.
Heating up mixtures of chemicals that may produce hydrogen cyanide or potassium cyanide on the scale that some posters seem to be attempting strikes me as rash or even incredibly foolish.
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Polverone
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6-2-2010 at 12:49
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[*] posted on 6-2-2010 at 18:58


And if you need a www.youtube.com video detailing the preparation then maybe you should not be tackling the preparation anyway.
Hydrogen cyanide, cyanogen, sodium cyanide and potassium cyanide are very poisonous.
I worked with cyanide in a research lab in the distant past and I had to account for the potassium cyanide that I used and there was a special system for signing off my cyanide related experiments.
I weighed out the potassium cyanide and then wrote the new gross weight on the potassium cyanide bottle so I could account for the potassium cyanide consumed within a few grams, also I had to submit experimental procedures to my research supervisor in advance of the experiment.
But I was using a lot of potassium cyanide!
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Jor
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[*] posted on 6-2-2010 at 19:51


Ofcourse it is a dangerous chemical, but with care it can be used safely. The bookkeeping of the amount of KCN used is done because of liability issues, not indicating how dangerous is it. There are much more dangerous chemicals used in research, it's just that this is such a easy way to poison someone.

Watching your videos on youtube, I see you handling whole blocks of white P, wich is a FAR more dangerous substance than KCN, 5 times as toxic, and an serious fire/burn hazard. But you did work with it quite responsibly, without any fume hood, are very serious gloves. This is also true for KCN, work with care and you'll be fine.

Yes HCN is extremely poisonous, but you still need quite large ppm values to kill. It is fatal at 300ppm for 10 minutes, that is still 300mL of pure HCN gas per m3. So even if you release 3L of HCN gas in a very small 10m3 room, without ventilation, you would need to stay there at least 5 minutes to go down.
So good ventilation like wind or fume hood isn't gonna kill if you work with care.
Liquid HCN is another story, a few drops on your skin might be fatal I think.
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ScienceSquirrel
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[*] posted on 6-2-2010 at 21:14


Quote: Originally posted by Jor  
Ofcourse it is a dangerous chemical, but with care it can be used safely. The bookkeeping of the amount of KCN used is done because of liability issues, not indicating how dangerous is it. There are much more dangerous chemicals used in research, it's just that this is such a easy way to poison someone.

Watching your videos on youtube, I see you handling whole blocks of white P, wich is a FAR more dangerous substance than KCN, 5 times as toxic, and an serious fire/burn hazard. But you did work with it quite responsibly, without any fume hood, are very serious gloves. This is also true for KCN, work with care and you'll be fine.

Yes HCN is extremely poisonous, but you still need quite large ppm values to kill. It is fatal at 300ppm for 10 minutes, that is still 300mL of pure HCN gas per m3. So even if you release 3L of HCN gas in a very small 10m3 room, without ventilation, you would need to stay there at least 5 minutes to go down.
So good ventilation like wind or fume hood isn't gonna kill if you work with care.
Liquid HCN is another story, a few drops on your skin might be fatal I think.


To my knowledge I do not have any videos on youtube and certainly none showing me handling white phosphorous.
My white phoshorous days preceded camera phones and the internet!
There are plenty of more dangerous chemicals used in research but most labs like to keep an eye on cyanides, white phosphorous, carbon monoxide, phosgene etc.
Cyanides are listed poisons within the UK and any unlisted really toxic material is watched if you use it in sufficient quantity.
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[*] posted on 7-2-2010 at 03:37


Correction that was ScienceGeek. My mistake :P
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vassili78
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[*] posted on 7-2-2010 at 10:18


what happen ? yeasterday there was 187 reply in 16 pages, now there are 171 messages in 15 pages?
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[*] posted on 7-2-2010 at 10:49


Some of them have been taken and put over here in their own thread.

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=13376
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vassili78
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[*] posted on 8-2-2010 at 13:46


what about my question? Does the yield will be better if i make the HCN bubble into the NaOH solution ?
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