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Author: Subject: Experimentation Start point
IanCaio
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[*] posted on 30-1-2013 at 11:52
Experimentation Start point


Hello guys,

I was just wondering what you consider a good start on energetic materials experimenting. I'm still not decided into trying any synthesis (I dont have a good lab setup yet, and I'm still not satisfied with my knowledge in the subject), only maybe some black powder related mixtures, like pyrothecnic stars, colored fires, some "less dangerous" stuff, and since I'm studying them (on the book recommended here "Chemistry of Powder and Explosives" by Tenney Davis) I think it would be a interesting thing to have some experimentation along with the learning.
But apart from that, coming back to the original question, what do you consider a more "safe" energetic materials synthesis ? Not saying that any of them is safe at all, but after studying and planning on the lab, a good start point.

Thanks for your help on recommending those books (I've been learning a lot, and intend to keep on so)

See you
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 30-1-2013 at 12:18


You can get an idea of the materials in the book from my channel:
http://www.youtube.com/user/apdapd2?feature=mhee
Nothing scientific trough, but testing is on household items so that everyone has an idea of the strength.
Synthesis of picric acid is somewhat safe, compared to NG. About setting it off, you can either use commercial blast cap, or homemade one. Keep in mind that some primaries explode sometimes by themselves with no apparent reason. Specially organic peroxides.
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IanCaio
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[*] posted on 31-1-2013 at 16:17


Nice channel man! Got really impressed by the Picric acid detonation, really strong. So you think its safer to handle and synthetize Picric acid then Nitroglycerin? Until now I thought Nitroglycerin was a nice begginer synthesis, appart from the risk of getting toxic NO and NO2 fumes..
I can get Phenol, would only have to synthetize fuming Sulfuric acid and from the sulfuric acid I would synthetize the Nitric acid..
But first I'll finish the book, it might have some valuable information on the Picric acid synthesis and handle, and maybe other information about general synthesis precautions..
I'm about to finish the pyrothecnics chapter, which the longest so far, and for me the most complicated since english is not my mother language, and fireworks are full of little details on the manufacture part..
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 31-1-2013 at 16:54


Why you have to synthesise all these things? Tests define all the important characteristics of the materials. Youtube gives you an idea what can they do. If you have interest in NG, you better make EGDN first. It run aways easier, but is much less likely to blow up. Yields are better then NG with low grade reagents.
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IanCaio
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[*] posted on 31-1-2013 at 19:34


I'll have to synthesise them because Nitric acid and Sulfuric acid are controlled chemicals here in my country, its easier to buy some battery acid (if I can find any) and purify it, or make some by copper sulfate electrolysis (If I could get some platine). And nitric acid by reaction with some nitrate (which is also controlled but I can get some fertilizer and purify it by cristalization).
Better yields and lower sensitivity, sounds really nice :)
I would have to study more about it because until now I didnt even know it existed, but it sounds like a better experiment then trying to make NG.
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 1-2-2013 at 03:48


I was asking why you have to make the actual energetic materials if it's all about studying. You can try making high purity H2SO4 with peroxide and SO2.
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Motherload
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[*] posted on 1-2-2013 at 07:06


@IanCaio
Well I am very glad to see you are going about things the right way.
You are reading through COPAE and don't want to jump in ... Head first .... Like a lot of noobs do.
You are looking for precautions and feedback and not "how do I make" handouts.

You seem to be on the right track.




"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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IanCaio
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[*] posted on 1-2-2013 at 15:31


Ral123,
I'm interested in synthesize the material for studying purposes and because I'm amazed with them too. I'm kind of a pyromaniac, but more like a reasonable pyromaniac :P
I'll look if the peroxide is under the controlled chemicals that I can get 2 liters a month. It would be easier than buy pharmacies peroxides and concentrate it (and maybe cheaper).

Motherload,
Thanks for the kind words, I hope to be in the right way, just seeing the posts in the Energetic materials section of the forum, I just realize there's lots of things to learn, and I'm willing to :)
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Motherload
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[*] posted on 1-2-2013 at 15:40


Sulfuric acid is very commonly sold a acidic toilet and/or drain cleaner.
Check the labels and MSDS sheets for the cleaners sold in you country.
Where I live .... Sulfuric acid is controled as well as a reagent but I buy 90%+ concentration at a janitor supply store.




"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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SherlockHolmes
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[*] posted on 1-2-2013 at 16:13


Hello, I can say that I cast from the weakest to the most powerful engineers. My first test was to detonate ANFO which a commercial flash powder. Then I decided to make boosters for ANFO and started experimenting with nitroglycerine and later with hexogen. My first few synthesis failed because always exceeded temperature and began to emit a red gas. Put them in water and extract yield. The first few production I never thought to just detonate them tested to shock, friction and heat. Synthesized 2-3ml while nitroglycerin understand the procedure completely. Then once 100ml synthesized and made them of dynamite who fired a few grams of flash and I was amazed by the power because I have not seen tests with nitroglycerin on metal internet. Sulphuric acid may be concentrated by boiling. I wanted to tell you not to start with a large quantity. Have you napredvid if while synthesizing ng reaction mixture passes 30 degrees burns violently and scatters hot acids vsyakade. Start with small amounts. Have you napredvid that easy as initiating explosives TATP and HMTD are more dangerous than nitroglycerin. Shoot for no apparent reason. I started about a year ago to synthesize initiating, previously only used large amounts of flash detonators. Just Ral123 me to try to initiating explosives. This is my test of pure nitroglycerine: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B5dcGkIwQKQ



Sorry for my english. I am not from England. Thank you!
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IanCaio
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[*] posted on 2-2-2013 at 11:55


Motherload,
I looked for it but most of the drain cleaners here are made of sodium hydroxide, and only a few of hydrochloric acid. Couldn't find any made of sulfuric acid. I guess my best shot is to look for car battery acid, maybe it isn't pure, but it might be easier to purify it than to synthesize it.

SherlockHolmes,
The test of Nitroglycerin on the metal plate was impressive, you only have an idea of it's power when you see so few mL make so much damage.
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