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Author: Subject: TNP or ETN
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[*] posted on 15-3-2013 at 22:16
TNP or ETN


After a month of research and reading patents , watching and reading synthesis's I have narrowed my options down to either Piric acid or ETN.

I am wondering what you guys think of the two and any other suggestions.
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 15-3-2013 at 23:13


You can play safe and go with picric acid. Or go a little greedy for power and go for ETN but read:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22554
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20582
And I'm sorry I can't post a link for a video that shows how pathetic can ETN be when not set off properly.
Here's micro picric acid test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopnxUnyxAQ
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AndersHoveland
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[*] posted on 15-3-2013 at 23:47


Phenol and ethylene glycol can be fairly easily be dehydrated to form the ester phenoxyethanol (ethylene glycol phenyl ether). This can then be nitrated.
I forget the name used to refer to it, but remember reading it had fairly good properties. lower sensitivity than tetryl.

(NO2)3C6H2-O-CH2CH2-ONO2

do not remember if it was melt castable, it is probably possible but it may not be advisable

[Edited on 16-3-2013 by AndersHoveland]
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 00:00


I was reading up of TNP and was thinking of doing it via acetylsalicylic acid , sulfuric acid and potassium nitrate.

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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 00:02


Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  
You can play safe and go with picric acid. Or go a little greedy for power and go for ETN but read:
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=22554
http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20582
And I'm sorry I can't post a link for a video that shows how pathetic can ETN be when not set off properly.
Here's micro picric acid test:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hopnxUnyxAQ


that life after det page actually made me look into TNP yet not recrystalizing ETN and using right away seems alright? Is there any cold re cryst methods around for ETN?
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VladimirLem
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 00:33


Pro ETN:
Cheap Erytrol, good yields, very powerful explosive, easy to make, less many acid are needed to make it then TNP, easy to ignite

Contra ETN:
maybe too easy to ignite :o ,dont storage it for a long time

---------

Pro TNP:
Save to handle (hard to ignite), storage possible (many months), powerful explosive

Contra TNP:
strong acid (TNP itself), needs more acid to get the same quantities then ETN, not nearly that easy to make then ETN, defently more chem-skills are needed to make it then ETN, needs a strong detonator/booster, expensive ASS, :o NOx :o

-

If you are carefully and haven't much chem-skills, go for ETN...
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 00:39


Yes I think I will make a very small amount of ETN over the course of the weekend to start , I have chemistry experience just not energetic materials experience so I am skeptical haha. Thanks for the help that is exactly what I was looking for.
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Ral123
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 01:09


ETN is sensitive like NG. And you think of not purifying it...
ETN is easy to make and easy to blow yourself up if you mess up something. Well made TNP stores for decades, not months :/ Well mede ETN also, but if it's in a freezer :D
I'd go with whatever reagents are more available to me, but in small amounts.
Keep your ETN at reasonable temperatures at all cost. Keep it from hits glass with glass or metal. Use shrapnel free containers.
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Kalium
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 04:44


If you're looking for an explosive that will be used practically (large charges over a long period of time) I would go for picric acid simply because it is a well-researched explosive that has seen widespread use. ETN is relatively new and there have been several anecdotal reports that identify it as a dangerously sensitive secondary. However, if you're just sticking to small (<5g) quantities then both are fine. If you want something that is very powerful, safe and easy to make, go for PETN. Pentaerythritol is easier to find than you might think.
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 06:42


I am definitely going to keep it >5grams. I would have to make a primary anyways to detonate the picric acid. What do you suggests for ETN recrystalization?
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 06:42


PETN is the safest of nitric esters. And runaway hazard exists in all energetic synthesis.
ETN will not detonate on you during re-crystalization. If you are wanting it via hot ethanol/alcohol method .... Use a water bath. If you will dissolve it in large amount of alcohol .... No heating is required.
Picric acid is a Nitro Aromatic compound .... Quite safe and versatile.
You can always make it into Ammonium Picrate to solve the incompatibility problem.




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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 06:44


Also another thing is how well does either or deal with contaminants , my potassium nitrate is from a drug store sold as salt Peter and my sulfuric acid is drain cleaner claimed to be 95% but I'm going to have to end up distilling it.
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[*] posted on 16-3-2013 at 17:37


Distillation is best ... But the nitrate and H2SO4 are pure enough for most synthesis.
You will have to purify by recrystalizing either way.




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