killswitch
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Sigma-Aldrich
The vast majority of energetics don't require access to Sigma-Aldrich's catalog to synthesize. But most of those are almost a century old.
I went to the trouble of forming an LLC, and I may be using it for business purposes in the near future. Right now, though, I need it to get Sigma to
even give me a second look.
Their website is aggravatingly designed (it wipes its own cookies at short intervals, erasing your cart and/or all your progress on their registration
form), but I can deal with that.
What I want to know is how strict their standards of scrutiny are. They ask for a description of your lab and warehouse facilities. My lab isn't all
that impressive, but at least I have one. But warehousing? Is 'overhead cabinet' going to cut it?
I ask all this because I am in desperate need of 4,6-dihydroxy-2-methyl-pyrimidine, glyoxal, pyridinium chlorochromate/dichromate, 2-methylimidazole,
lithium aluminum hydride, THF, DMF, DMSO, PBr3, pyridine, guanidine, potassium tert-butoxide, lithium diisopropylamide, sodium azide, etc.
Not merely for energetics, but also for just about any damned chemistry that's even remotely interesting.
I'm pretty sure LiAlH4, PCC/PDC, LDA, t-BuOK, 2-methyl imidazole, and 4,6-dihydroxy 2-methyl pyrimidine are not available from anywhere
other than a chemical supplier like Aldrich.
Do they actually have a guy come around and inspect your facilities? Do they automatically turn down orders made with a personal bank account, even if
from the owner of the business? (I know it's good practice to separate your assets from the company, but since I'm not in business yet I'm not worried
about being sued).
Alternately, are there any other companies that are easier to order from that sell these things? Or an OTC source for some of the above?
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Bot0nist
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LAH is at elemental scientific .net
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Sigma Aldrich is sooo expensive !!!! 1 grams of LBH for 45 Euro, are you kidding me !!!
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killswitch
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Does Alfa-Aesar have better pricing?
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Ral123
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It's not like you guys will make anything special with all these exotics. So far military energetics can't exceed EGDN in energy density. Only PETN or
CL20 would do that, pressed at maximum theoretical density.
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killswitch
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Quote: Originally posted by Ral123  | | It's not like you guys will make anything special with all these exotics. So far military energetics can't exceed EGDN in energy density. Only PETN or
CL20 would do that, pressed at maximum theoretical density. |
Not sure what this has to do with anything we've posted...
But you must know energy density isn't the only key property of an explosive.
For example, you flat-out forgot to mention octanitrocubane, which thermodynamic calculations predict will exceed both of your examples under those
same conditions, but presents practical difficulties in attaining said conditions reliably, thus research is ongoing.
Detonation velocity, bulk material properties, compatibility with other substances, resistance to environmental degradation, shock, heat, and friction
sensitivity, brisance, decomposition products, energy efficiency of synthesis, difficulty of synthesis, level of environmental toxicity, and dozens of
other factors can all push one energetic over another, even if one looks to give a bigger bang on paper.
It's almost like you're telling science to pack up and go home because everything has been invented already.
Of course, I'm sure you didn't mean it that way. Just relaying an impression.
[Edited on 29-5-2013 by killswitch]
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Ral123
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I'm saying that the over 100 years old RDX is an excellent secondary with very difficult to surpass brisanse. And yet, for most of us it's exotic. Now
you guys are considering to go into most recent military exotics and beyond I guess. When will there be a decent RDX test(not rednecks with C4, 500
yards away) in youtube, so we can even begin to talk about the more fancy stuff.
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APO
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I spoke to Ben Krasnow on YouTube, and he got Tetramethylorthosilicate from Sigma-Aldrich through so called "tricky means" and he pretty much said
that you just need to have a "business" order it for you.
[Edited on 29-5-2013 by APO]
"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
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killswitch
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There's videos of things like nickel(II) hydrazine nitrate, tetrammine copper(II) persulfate, and ethylenediamine silver(I) bromate up on youtube if
you know where to look.
Besides, videos of explosions all look pretty much the same [except metal salts, which have occasional flashes of color], and without the ability of
computer speakers to transmit impulse noise it's never really the same on video.
I remember a video of a demolition crew disposing of 5L of NG, and the description and comments were one long argument over whether he'd oversold it
or if we all needed better speakers.
Besides, this forum isn't really about seeking YouTube fame. At least in the beginning it was about interesting and novel energetics, and there are
still traces of it here and there from some of the senior posters with industry ties or access to lab supplies.
Really, all you need to make RDX is anhydrous WFNA. A proper vacuum distillation setup is all you need for that.
Alternately, just distill without vacuum, then sparge like crazy with dry nitrogen or CO2 until the red color is gone.
It's my theory that anhydrous hydrogen peroxide could also clean up red fuming nitric acid. ONO. +
.OH = HONO2.
I've also heard using hexamine dinitrate instead of straight hexamine, as well as dissolving ammonium nitrate in the nitric acid beforehand can
increase yield. Don't quote me on that, though.
Honestly, I'd be more interested in nitroso-RDX as a stabilizer for long-term storage of nitric esters.
[Edited on 29-5-2013 by killswitch]
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killswitch
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| Quote: Originally posted by APO | | I spoke to Ben Krasnow on YouTube, and he got Tetramethylorthosilicate from Sigma-Aldrich through so called "tricky means" and he pretty much said
that you just need to have a business order it for you. |
I own a business. Though for the moment I guess you should put "business" in quotes, since I have no employees or revenue at the moment and less than
$10,000 in capital contributions.
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APO
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Done.
"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
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Bot0nist
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Stop with the one liner posts please, APO. in this and the NH3 evolution thread. This isnt facebook. just what till you have something to contribute.
As far as the big chem companies... Many have learned to get by without them, and it has benifited amatuer chemistry. Just look at some of garage
chemists innovations... Sure, a Sigma account would be great for some hard to get, impossible to make reagents, but for most needs, we can improvise.
Thats have the fun and challenge. 
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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killswitch
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| Quote: Originally posted by Bot0nist |
As far as the big chem companies... Many have learned to get by without them, and it has benifited amatuer chemistry. Just look at some of garage
chemists innovations... Sure, a Sigma account would be great for some hard to get, impossible to make reagents, but for most needs, we can improvise.
Thats have the fun and challenge. |
So, about that 4,6-dihydroxy 2-methyl pyrimidine... or 2-methyl imidazole... or pyridinium dichromate (the straight stuff, not the Cornforth reagent)
[Edited on 29-5-2013 by killswitch]
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killswitch
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What? What's been done?
WHAT HAVE YOU DONE APO??!!!
Edit: Oh wait, you literally put business in quotes in your post?  I was
actually referring to my "business."
[Edited on 29-5-2013 by killswitch]
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killswitch
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Well I'll be damned. Thank you.
Edit: Wait, why the hell don't they stock any ethers besides MTBE? MTBE can't even do Grignards, so I'll eat my hat if it can do LiAlH4 reductions.
Edit 2: How do they carry butanol but not tert-butanol?
[Edited on 29-5-2013 by killswitch]
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DieForelle
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I think at the very least someone like Sigma is going to make sure you have a listing in Dun & Bradstreet, have a state business license, and that
your address is in the UPS database as a commercial/business address. (UPS will happily tell you this if you call them...assuming you actually manage
to speak to the right department. It's usually pretty obvious. Are you zoned residential or commercial?) Somewhere out there you could actually
download the new customer application for one of the minor players, I think it was GFS chemicals, and that was what they asked for. That's at the
very _least_. Because Sigma doesn't have a reseller network, as such, I think they tend to me a little more paranoid about where their product goes.
No easy way to wash their hands of bad news. The other lab supply brands (spectrum, Fisher, et al) are easier to get stuff from, if you know where
to look and are reasonable about it. (i.e., don't order DEA watch list items)
Hey speaking of energetic - the effect of mixing sodium chlorate and terephthalic acid in a freight derailment:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6oYBta46H-g
although I don't think they mixed all at the same time, or the explosion would have been even bigger. As it was it could be heard across the
Chesapeake Bay, over 10 miles away.
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zed
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Sigma-Aldrich has been discussed many times here at ScienceMadness.
It is easier to order their products through a third party.
Personally, I used to order their stuff through Daiggers. I don't know if that is an option anymore.
Otherwise, I used to order through my University.
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The_Davster
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| Quote: Originally posted by Ral123 | | When will there be a decent RDX test(not rednecks with C4, 500 yards away) in youtube, so we can even begin to talk about the more fancy stuff.
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Some of us have made CL20...Fox 7....LAX112....LLM105
Just do not think youtube is the appropriate place for such things....
[Edited on 5-6-13 by The_Davster]
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NiCoLi_BrLiNTe
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Zed (or anyone else who can answer this) when you say you've ordered through your uni, what exactly was it you used to order? If you don't mind me
asking. Just I volunteer as an assistant lab tech at uni and they've let me order things, such as agarose and T4 phage. However, I'm trying to gauge
the reaction if I asked for something like BBr3.
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prof_genius
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If you live in europe/ Poland you can find sigma distributors like HurtChem.pl. Some sell to individuals and some don't, you just have to find the one
right for your needs.
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DubaiAmateurRocketry
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Cheap bulk quantity purchasing.
If I buy 20kg of anhydrous 5-amino-1,2,3,4tetrazole (5ATZ), the price would be around 20-30 dollars per 500 grams which is so much cheaper than Sigma
Aldrich who sell 300+ Euro per 500 grams.
5ATZ is a important starting material for other tetrazole compounds. Any one interested ?
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prof_genius
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I recommend merck in Poland, their products are so much cheaper than sigma or merck in other countries.
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