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Armistice19
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So ummm.... is 1900mL H2SO4 and 946mL HNO3 enough to make you slightly worried? 
Or say maybe like...I dunno, 2lbs of urea???
......
I'm going to prison aren't I? I'm actually going to jail. Oh God. Okay this hasn't sunk in yet, maybe if I just sit on the chemicals for now, lay low?
F***
[Edited on 9-6-2013 by Armistice19]
[Edited on 9-6-2013 by Armistice19]
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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chemcam
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It is unlikely, You can rest easy, I didn't mean to scare you just make you aware.
But yes after ordering that much I would just keep them out of sight out of mind for a month or two. If all you want to make is NC check local laws it
could be totally legal in your area.
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Armistice19
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Phew! 
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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golfpro
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I wouldn't empty your thoughts and worries either to the internet on a public forum. If one webstie is monitored more than anything, it is this one,
and it is the energetics section. So realize that by everything you post on here, imagine it equal to you posting a flier on the entrance doors of an
FBI headquarters building.
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chemcam
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If they do monitor this board I bet it is to learn, not to look for suspects. I also bet 99% of the active members on this board are harmless
intellects that just want to teach, learn and socialize with others.
Edit:
The mods here do a great job at keeping the k3wls banished to totse and the like.. with the exception of "eliteforum" why they allow his signature
link is beyond me..
[Edited on 6-10-2013 by chemcam]
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Armistice19
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Well either way I'll keep everyone posted. I might even consider going through all the hassle of obtaining an FEL if I have to. Worse comes to worse
I'll see if I can use a library computer in prison during lunch hour or something. 
[Edited on 10-6-2013 by Armistice19]
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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chemcam
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Haha now that is a good attitude to have.
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gnitseretni
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I don't think you have anything to worry about. I once ordered 6 gallons HNO3 and 4 gallons H2SO4 online from the same supplier and I'm still a free
man 
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chemcam
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Quote: Originally posted by gnitseretni  | | I don't think you have anything to worry about. I once ordered 6 gallons HNO3 and 4 gallons H2SO4 online from the same supplier and I'm still a free
man |
For now.
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gnitseretni
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Don't let chemcam scare you, armistice19.
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Ral123
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That's why I like safe, stable for storage materials. For example you make 10 blast caps. They can be moved and stored in so may ways. You can sleep
well, knowing that very little can go wrong, even if kids find them. You can't do that with unstable permanganate flash with sloppy made MHN. You have
to store such dangerous sh*t in your refrigerator under very strict control. If you have to kick it out in a hurry, you'll never know what incident it
might have caused. If you suspect trouble, would you give it to a friend to store it for you?
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Bert
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Armistice19, check your U2U.
Rapopart’s Rules for critical commentary:
1. Attempt to re-express your target’s position so clearly, vividly and fairly that your target says: “Thanks, I wish I’d thought of putting it
that way.”
2. List any points of agreement (especially if they are not matters of general or widespread agreement).
3. Mention anything you have learned from your target.
4. Only then are you permitted to say so much as a word of rebuttal or criticism.
Anatol Rapoport was a Russian-born American mathematical psychologist (1911-2007).
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Armistice19
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Even if it was the most stable explosive on earth I still wouldn't give it to a friend to store it for me. I don't have any friends that can match
even the small amount of knowledge/experience that I have right now. I would never put anyone in that sort of physical/legal danger. If anything were
to happen, I would much rather it happen to me.
UPDATE:
Sulfuric Acid, Urea, and glass stirring rods arrived today. Also it turns out the Urea and the H2SO4 were from the same seller on ebay, it is a
biodiesel supplier. Hopefully this doesn't look bad enough on paper to cause a fuss.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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chemcam
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Nah, I am almost sure you will be fine. I honestly was not trying to make you freaked out, but just educate you on how to buy chemicals from now on.
You do seem knowledgeable to me so far, it's only the morons that get in trouble with chemicals. You'll be fine. Congrats on your new chemicals by the
way!
I know what you mean about not having any intelligent friends.. I pretend to be less educated when I'm with some of my friends since they are
intimidated by too smart of a person.
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Armistice19
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LOL, I'm not THAT smart dude. Most of my co-workers are much smarter than me (and they act like it too  ). It's just that I've read a lot about explosives in the past, and my friends haven't. All I am doing is using my
best judgement on which methods of manufacture are accurate, and which are not. I always loved chemistry, and I did decently well in my chem classes,
though my memory is TERRIBLE. However, as our father sciencemadness has taught us all, the application of Murphy's Law is pretty much the closest
thing to a panacea that we have here on earth, so I think I will be applying it quite a bit. (or at least I will try) Lately I have been trying to
push myself to learn more about the SCIENCE of explosive synthesis. I want to revive that old chemistry knowledge that has been sitting unused in the
dusty catacombs of my mind for so very long.
I'm also not the most motivated person in the world either.
[Edited on 13-6-2013 by Armistice19]
[Edited on 13-6-2013 by Armistice19]
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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Hockeydemon
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What would you guys recommend for a large explosion that is safe to transport & has a velocity of ~3km/s? I would prefer it to be relatively safe
to synthesize since I have not synthesized any energetic materials. I do however have proper laboratory equipment.
My roommate has a beach house on the ocean ~2 hours from my house that I could detonate anything I please at. It would just be fun to make a big
finally explosive for the 4th.
I wonder if anyone has ever gone geoduck hunting with explosives hahaha (not what I intend to do).
If you point me in the direction I'll do the learning.
| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam |
I know what you mean about not having any intelligent friends.. I pretend to be less educated when I'm with some of my friends since they are
intimidated by too smart of a person. |
I have probably 1 intelligent friend for every 9 friends of average intellect. Even then the few friends that I would consider intelligent have no
involvement in science.
This forum is one of my only outlets for my borderline inappropriate love for science.
[Edited on 13-6-2013 by Hockeydemon]
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Hockeydemon
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Forgive my naivety on the matter, but why are people not making RDX & PETN while forgoing most of the other things? RDX on paper is a joke to
synthesize, and PETN is not very far behind. They're also stable compounds with very high velocities, and they have a high R.E factor.
I'm actually very intrigued by the process it would take to make this.
K2Cr2O7 + H2SO4 + heat to form an oxidizing agent for EtOH to form ethanal
http://youtu.be/TRFkU6442oo Video of ethanal synth
I can buy some paraformaldehyde (or look up how to oxidize methanol).
Then react the ethanal with the methanal + calcium oxide and I get Pentaerythritol..
Then I just react that with nitric acid, and I get PETN?
Though I doubt those of you experienced in energetic materials are unfamiliar with it here is the synthesis I've been looking at
RDX looks almost boring to synthesize.
[Edited on 13-6-2013 by Hockeydemon]
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golfpro
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Just do ETN...
I have read that Flash powder is louder than ETN in small amonts like under 5grams. I don't beleive this would be true in amounts around 25 grams...
Even though 5g ETN would have a much more powerful blast than confined 5g Flash powder. True?
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Hockeydemon
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| Quote: Originally posted by golfpro | Just do ETN...
I have read that Flash powder is louder than ETN in small amonts like under 5grams. I don't beleive this would be true in amounts around 25 grams...
Even though 5g ETN would have a much more powerful blast than confined 5g Flash powder. True? |
Just bought 2.5lbs of Erythritol for $10 haha. I'm still very interested in PETN though - more so the synthesis than the boom.
Whether or not flash powder has a high density or velocity would depend on it's specific composition. ETN is ~8k m/s & 1.6g/cm^3
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Motherload
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| Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon | Forgive my naivety on the matter, but why are people not making RDX & PETN while forgoing most of the other things? RDX on paper is a joke to
synthesize, and PETN is not very far behind. They're also stable compounds with very high velocities, and they have a high R.E factor.
I'm actually very intrigued by the process it would take to make this.
K2Cr2O7 + H2SO4 + heat to form an oxidizing agent for EtOH to form ethanal
http://youtu.be/TRFkU6442oo Video of ethanal synth
I can buy some paraformaldehyde (or look up how to oxidize methanol).
Then react the ethanal with the methanal + calcium oxide and I get Pentaerythritol..
Then I just react that with nitric acid, and I get PETN?
Though I doubt those of you experienced in energetic materials are unfamiliar with it here is the synthesis I've been looking at
RDX looks almost boring to synthesize.
[Edited on 13-6-2013 by Hockeydemon] |
I am guessing you have never attempted a synthesis of either RDX or PETN ?
Given your casual attitude towards HE's ...... You shouldn't attempt to either.
I am not trying to burn/flame you ..... Even a mission to mars seems trivial on paper.
You need to respect the science involved and realize the potential of disaster.
Stay with commercial fireworks for the 4th of July.
"Chance favours the prepared mind"
"Fuck It !! We'll do it live !!"
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Armistice19
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UPDATE:
Yesterday all the glassware arrived, and today the HNO3, Scale, NaOH, and mortar & pestle arrived. Since tomorrow is my day off, I figure I'll go
to home depot and get myself some splash goggles, a face shield, an apron, elbow length neoprene gloves, and of course COTTON! However I do plan on
playing some indoor CQB airsoft games in the evening tomorrow, so I might not post the vid for a while yet. I will continue to keep you all updated.
Hockeydemon, I hope you don't mind if I ask, what are some of the energetics that you have already synthesized so far in all your travels?
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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Hockeydemon
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| Quote: Originally posted by Motherload |
I am guessing you have never attempted a synthesis of either RDX or PETN ?
Given your casual attitude towards HE's ...... You shouldn't attempt to either.
I am not trying to burn/flame you ..... Even a mission to mars seems trivial on paper.
You need to respect the science involved and realize the potential of disaster.
Stay with commercial fireworks for the 4th of July. |
What are the potential dangers (serious question) in PETN & RDX synthesis? Up until I nitrate them there is no real danger (explosive danger), and
aren't these two particular explosives relatively insensitive? I'm intrigued about it, but I'm not going to just jump into making explosives.
---
Armistice19: I don't really have much experience with energetic materials - I've avoided them. I usually do other chemistry. This thread just
interested me, and I spent awhile reading about various explosives & their synthesis. I have more interest in the synthesis than the explosion
though.
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Armistice19
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I received the pH strips today. I still haven't gone to home depot yet, and I have a few things to get done in my messy life before I can get started.
I am shooting for weekend after next to make the video. I don't think I'll be quite ready for the 4th, but there will still be the usual flash powder.
“Imagination is more important than knowledge. For knowledge is limited to all we now know and understand, while imagination embraces the entire
world, and all there ever will be to know and understand.” -Albert Einstein
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chemcam
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| Quote: Originally posted by Hockeydemon |
What are the potential dangers (serious question) in PETN & RDX synthesis? Up until I nitrate them there is no real danger (explosive danger), and
aren't these two particular explosives relatively insensitive? I'm intrigued about it, but I'm not going to just jump into making explosives.
|
When you say "up until I nitrate them" I have to assume you mean the precursors, pentaerythritol and hexamine? There is no explosive hazard from them
before nitration unless you have a certain percentage of the dust in the air but that is 99% unlikely the flash point of pentaerythritol is 200.1 °C, hexamine is flammable but that is the only danger. As long as you pay close attention to the temperature, continuous stirring and don't
leave unattended you should be okay. There is always a risk for a runaway but if you're aware it shouldn't happen.
RDX has fairly low sensitivity but honestly I only know that from talking with others I have no experience with it. If you are using reagent grade
acids it will be much safer than industrial grade. Impurities always have an effect on the sensitivity.
PETN is actually easy to detonate, I would say it is marginally less sensitive than ETN but I do not have proof of this. I mean both of them are much
less sensitive than primaries but you should treat them all the same, very carefully. You do sound a little too relaxed when talking about these
things but at least you are only in the knowledge acquiring phase. Have you read through this thread? Life after Detonation
Like I have said many times before the first nitration should be cellulose to get the feel for it.
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Hockeydemon
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| Quote: Originally posted by chemcam |
When you say "up until I nitrate them" I have to assume you mean the precursors, pentaerythritol and hexamine? There is no explosive hazard from them
before nitration unless you have a certain percentage of the dust in the air but that is 99% unlikely the flash point of pentaerythritol is 200.1 °C, hexamine is flammable but that is the only danger. As long as you pay close attention to the temperature, continuous stirring and don't
leave unattended you should be okay. There is always a risk for a runaway but if you're aware it shouldn't happen.
RDX has fairly low sensitivity but honestly I only know that from talking with others I have no experience with it. If you are using reagent grade
acids it will be much safer than industrial grade. Impurities always have an effect on the sensitivity.
PETN is actually easy to detonate, I would say it is marginally less sensitive than ETN but I do not have proof of this. I mean both of them are much
less sensitive than primaries but you should treat them all the same, very carefully. You do sound a little too relaxed when talking about these
things but at least you are only in the knowledge acquiring phase. Have you read through this thread? Life after Detonation
Like I have said many times before the first nitration should be cellulose to get the feel for it. |
Would it hinder the nitration at all by using dry ice & IPA as the cooling bath? Or is that just entirely overkill to begin with, and a simple ice
bath will suffice? I have an addition funnel, and a sep funnel ect. I don't understand why runaways are so prevalent. Is it just a lack of patients on
the part of the chemist? Outside of the runaway, and complete disregard for safe handling of the explosive it does not appear to be as dangerous as
people make it out to be. I don't mean to sound like I'm down playing the potential for harm that these materials possess. I am quite fearful of them,
but I do feel that they are being talked up quite a bit in regards to danger (not that there aren't plenty of people out there that require that kind
of 'talking up').
Yes I've read the "life after detonation", and it is pretty unfortunate. It along with many of the other videos of people blowing themselves up is
part of the reason I have completely stayed away from energetics.
I nitrated cellulose earlier today after I synthesized some nitric acid. Though I didn't bother to make a video of me nitrating cellulose, I did make
a video of me destroying my nitril gloves with nitric acid for snapchat haha. http://youtu.be/FXhE57b5ofw
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