APO
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Spontaneous Copper Nitrate and Magnesium Reaction
I was making a flash powder of 2.99g of Sulfur, 7.01g of Copper Nitrate that was labled as anhydrous, not sure though, and 0.25g of Red Phosphorus. I
added all of this to a bag, and mixed them by shaking the bag, then I stopped and added 2.00g of Magnesium, sealed it, and began shaking it. It got
hot very quick and started melting the bag, so I put it on my table, then a dark orange gas (probably Nitrogen Dioxide) filled up the bag, and seeped
through the part where it had melted. After the orange gas release had stopped, a heavy white gas was emitted (smelled like Sulfur Dioxide). At first
I thought that the Phosphorus and Magnesium went hypergolic, and that the heat decomposed the supposibly Anhydrous Copper Nitrate into Nitrogen
Dioxide and Cupric
Oxide which then decomposed to Cuprous Oxide, giving Oxygen to the Sulfur, producing Sulfur Dioxide.
To test this, I went to my patio, and added some Magnesium onto a pile of that same Copper Nitrate, and immediately watched dark brown/orange gas
(probably Nitrogen Dioxide) puff out leaving extra Magnesium, and some kind of foam that was the color of Copper Carbonate.
Now... WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED?
<!-- bfesser_edit_tag -->[<a href="u2u.php?action=send&username=bfesser">bfesser</a>: corrected
subject typo]
[Edited on 7/8/13 by bfesser]
"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
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chemcam
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I believe you should study the periodic table a bit more before mixing things together. Check for reactivity. Oh and you shouldn't mix things in a bag
especially flash powders. Its very dangerous but I notice you are prone to dangerous activities.
Magnesium is more reactive than copper so a displacement reaction maybe?
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Bot0nist
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I find it odd that after mixing these materials in a bag together and surviving, he still thinks he may have anhydrous copper nitrate, and not ionic
copper nitrate Xhydrate... Please read more on anhydrous copper nitrate, as it is not simply dehydrated copper nitrate hydrates. It is a very rare and
reactive compound... This has been spelled out in several of your threads where you mention it. Take heed.
And chemcam is correct, shaking an unknown, possibly pyrophoric and shock sensitive mixture in a bag, and on such scals is foolish. You are to young
to be contending for a Darwin Award so fervently...
U.T.F.S.E. and learn the joys of autodidacticism!
Don't judge each day only by the harvest you reap, but also by the seeds you sow.
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caterpillar
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I've read about spontaneous reaction between Mg and AN. Most likely, it was caused by trace amounts of nitric acid, presenting in AN. On the other
hand, Mg as very active metal must react with wet salts (and "anhydrous" copper nitrate surely contents some water) of less active metals like copper.
This reaction goes with self-acceleration. I met an unpleasant surprise when mixture of AN+ R-salt converted to gray smoke within few seconds (and it
was standing for one week before it happened). Dry mixture of CuSO4*5H2O +NaCl+Al generates much heat after adding some water.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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APO
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I know it's not anhydrous, it's just labled that way, so I don't know what hydrate it is. By the way, I was doing the thing with the flash powder out
in an empty construction site, so no apartment harming accidents could occur. The Nitrogen Dioxide, in my patio was not so bad as there was tons of
wind blowing.
Also, caterpillar, AN being Ammonium Nitrate?
[Edited on 8-7-2013 by APO]
"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
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chemcam
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I didn't mean the location of your experiment is bad, what I mean is don't mix things in a bag, it could easily detonate and blow your hands or
fingers off. Depending on what it is you can paper-fold to mix.
12g of stuff is really big for a 'see what happens' experiment, try 1g amounts. It will save on your reagent expense as well as keeping you intact.
Be wary of ordering chemicals on eBay, I once ordered food grade citric acid and got salicylic acid in a jar labeled food grade citric acid. If my
goal was to eat it I would have probably died. I happened to need salicylic acid as well so I just kept it beings it was worth more $$ anyway.
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caterpillar
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Yes. TATP means triacetone triperoxide, ASA aspirin and so on. Read carefully posts here. And when you shake mixtures like yours, there is always a
chance to get statical discharge (if compounds are dry, of course). Numerous accidents took place even with simple BP (black powder).
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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phlogiston
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I really hope you distilled a few important safety lessons from this experiment.
The white gas may consist of phosphorous pentoxide and perhaps contain some phosphene if moisture was present.
In addition to the things mentioned above by others I would strongly advice you not to smell the smoke of your experiments.
[Edited on 8-7-2013 by phlogiston]
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"If a rocket goes up, who cares where it comes down, that's not my concern said Wernher von Braun" - Tom Lehrer |
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Trotsky
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Going out young with energetics isn't nearly as much fun as doing it with drugs.
Be careful!
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APO
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I know the possibilitys of what could have happened, so I'll think twice and try not to be so reckless.
Also, kind of irrelevant, but, does rcandy count for experience here? I'm pretty proud of mine it's almost as quick as flash powder. Seriously, 120
grams made an instant mushroom cloud. I'm currently experimenting with Cream of Tartar if anyone's interested.
"Damn it George! I told you not to drop me!"
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AndersHoveland
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Reactive metals such as zinc and magnesium powder are not compatible with nitrates. Aluminum powder is more compatible because it is more resistant to
corrosion and reaction. In the presence of moisture and slightly acidic conditions, the metal powder begins to be corroded, and in so doing begins to
reduce the nitrate.
The reaction between magnesium and copper nitrate would be especially rapid because of galvanic corrosion, copper being deposited on the magnesium
powder, catalyzing swift corrosion.
Another incompatibility, chlorates should never be used with sulfur or ammonium salts in pyrotechnic compositions.
Perchlorate not only has more oxygen, but it also has a higher temperature of decomposition, does not react at normal temperatures, and has much less
compatibility problems.
[Edited on 9-7-2013 by AndersHoveland]
I'm not saying let's go kill all the stupid people...I'm just saying lets remove all the warning labels and let the problem sort itself out.
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caterpillar
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Quote: Originally posted by AndersHoveland  |
Perchlorate not only has more oxygen, but it also has a higher temperature of decomposition, does not react at normal temperatures, and has much less
compatibility problems.
[Edited on 9-7-2013 by AndersHoveland] |
Some does have. One wise boy wanted to dry trimethylphosphate. He wanted to use well-known Mg(ClO4)2. Explosion occurred just when few drops of
aforementioned phosphate had contacted with perchlorate.
Women are more perilous sometimes, than any hi explosive.
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woelen
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Magnesium metal can form very dangerous mixes with metal nitrates, especially with hydrated nitrates, which tend to be somewhat humid.
I myself once mixed a few 100's of mg of AgNO3 with some Mg-powder and as soon as a small drop of water was added, a white fireball appeared and small
droplets of molten silver were sprayed around! With copper nitrate the reaction will be less vigorous, but it easier sets off, due to the
humid/hygroscopic nature of copper nitrate. Very dangerous mixes, which should not be made in more than a few hundreds of milligram quantities.
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Fantasma4500
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hah.. i once tried the Cu(NO3)2 xH2O out with Mg dust
it got hot very quickly while i was mixing it, i felt the heat through the paper then suddenly POFFF
light everywhere 
nothing happened tho, 0.05g amount
it was clumping together alot also
i took it as the water reacted with the Mg and never thought twice over it really
same happened with Ca(NO3)2
a viable explanation would be that it depletes Cu and makes Mg(NO3)2
but would that mean i might have found a way to make calcium? doubt it
if it truly was anhydrous copper nitrate i dont see the whole reason for it reacting, as by my understanding powders doesnt react by themselves at all
also cream of tartar, thats potassium tartrate isnt it?
what can that do?
if you want a nice and really fast mushroom cloud make a bulk quanity of golden powder
this stuff is relatively safe, but goes off by contact with a flame, perhaps before
needs something alike a steel pipe with threaded ends and all to make an actual bang (no, this is NOT a good idea, its not an IDEA its just to tell
how much you need to make it go bang)
properties of GP is that it burns with low temperature, so put 50g in a tube, and put the tube flat on ground, the smoke should shoot to both sides
along the ground 0.1g smoke
forms lots of solid on reaction
offtopic, dont know how many on here is fans of that
as the others said dont mix it in a bag
keep it at a max 0.1g first time you try something and mix it on paper
0.1g armstrongs mix is pretty violent by itself
if you had 10g armstrongs mix in a bag i dont think you would of written about your experience
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