killswitch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 209
Registered: 8-7-2011
Location: is a relative concept
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
OTC insecticide precursors to nitroguanidine derivatives
Imidacloprid:
Imidacloprid is the most widely-used insecticide in the world. It is now off-patent, though suspicions regarding its potential role in causing colony
collapse disorder in bees (don't laugh, it's a serious problem) has resulted in considerable restrictions on its use in the EU.
Dinotefuran:
Dinotefuran is also an insecticide, and in addition is used in conjunction with pyriproxyfen for flea and tick prevention on household pets such as
cats and dogs.
Since I'm not a veterinarian, I don't know if "in conjunction" means using both in the course of treatment or if they are instead combined in a single
pharmaceutical product.
My thoughts on imidacloprid:
If the methylene units on the imidazoline moeity could be removed (perhaps by nitrolysis) and the pyridine dechlorinated and subjected to EAS with
nitronium, a workable explosive could be produced. However, I have no idea how to do this.
My thoughts on dinotefuran:
If the ether could be hydrolyzed and the resulting OH groups nitrated to ONO2, the product could perhaps work as a secondary explosive. Its
oxygen balance is abysmal, though. It might need a booster despite having no C-NO2 units.
However, if the 2ยบ N-methylene unit and THF moiety were to be removed, interesting things could be done via Mannich reaction.
Of course, I don't know to break that particular bond. Is it nitrolysis? It always seems to be nitrolysis when it comes to these things.
|
|
|
VladimirLem
Hazard to Others
Posts: 204
Registered: 24-5-2010
Member Is Offline
Mood: Have no fear <Vlad> is here.
|
|
very imteresting stuff 
would really be cool, to get some "easy" NitroGuadinin in quantitys...espechially cause im in shaped charges and it really sucks to always use ANNM
with a few percents of high-end stuff (like PETN)....
BTW: in theorie wouldn't it be possible to detonate the pesticides with a really really stong booster? they've both a nitro-group...
with some oxidizer like ammoniumnitrate which will optimize the fucked up oxybalance of those pesticides, seems it to be really possible and could be
some (weak) ANNM-/(equal up to strong) ANFO substitute?
| Quote: | | (don't laugh, it's a serious problem) |
im from central europe, and yes....there used to be as many wasps as bees, but today: wasps everywhere, even hornets (rare) are more often to view
that bees 
|
|
|
AndersHoveland
Hazard to Other Members, due to repeated speculation and posting of untested highly dangerous procedures!
Posts: 1986
Registered: 2-3-2011
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
Quote: Originally posted by killswitch  |
My thoughts on imidacloprid:
If the methylene units on the imidazoline moeity could be removed (perhaps by nitrolysis) and the pyridine dechlorinated and subjected to EAS with
nitronium, a workable explosive could be produced. However, I have no idea how to do this.
Of course, I don't know to break that particular bond. Is it nitrolysis? It always seems to be nitrolysis when it comes to these things.
|
polyhexamethylene biguanide (PHMB), is used as a non-chlorine pool sanitizer. It is the condensation product between biguanide and formaldehyde,
sometimes in the form of the hydrochloride salt. Those formaldehyde groups tend to be fairly vulnerable to oxidation.
A methylene group bonded to two oxygen/nitrogen atoms is more vulnerable to oxidation than a methylene group bonded to a carbon and only one
oxygen/nitrogen atom.
A guanidine derivative should be nitrated before oxidation to remove unwanted groups, otherwise the guanidine itself is likely to be
destructively oxidized. Another reason prior nitration is important is that it makes the undesirable oxidized group easier to hydrolyze off; when that
amine is electron donating to a nitro group in the conjugated system, it will prefer to have 2 hydrogen atoms on it.
[Edited on 13-9-2013 by AndersHoveland]
|
|
|
killswitch
Hazard to Others
Posts: 209
Registered: 8-7-2011
Location: is a relative concept
Member Is Offline
Mood: No Mood
|
|
So, from what I gather, polyhexanide (PHMB) in 100% HONO2 at 0 Celsius or below would result in nitration of the secondary amines, and
subsequent dilution to 50% nitric acid would hydrolyze off the aliphatic side chains? Or is acetic anhydride necessary at some stage?
Alternatively, is there a good method to nitroguanidine via oxidative nitration of guanidine?
It occurs to me that such a nitration would be much more effective with N2O5 in CH2Cl2. Now if only N2O5 were easier to make...
[Edited on 13-9-2013 by killswitch]
|
|
|
![[*]](images/xpblue/default_icon.gif){kind=icon}
