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bismuthate
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silver chemistry
i just recived 25g of silver nitrate and i want to make unusual and exotic silver compounds with it. i've tried making silver permanganate, but i was
wondering if it is possible to make silver manganate by mixing potassium manganate and silver nitrate or would the silver nitrate oxidise the
manganate?
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sonogashira
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Have you looked in Inorganic Syntheses? Silver chemistry is very well researched.
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bismuthate
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yes but i found nothing on silver manganate. does it even exist?
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Hegi
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I have a lot of silver nitrate so I am interested in this topic as well.. Would be great if you came up with something interesting and gave some
tips.. 
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BobD1001
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A couple of fun experiments that I know of with Silver nitrate are making a silver mirror in a test tube, and also the classic silver acetylide double
salt. Be very careful with the silver acetylide though, limit the reaction to a couple hundred milligrams at most, as it can be pretty scary stuff.
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bismuthate
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yeah i was also wonderiing what coumpounds i could percipitate. ex silver chromate, chloride, iodide etc. but is silver manganate possible?
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bismuthate
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bobd1001 yes i can be scary if you bump it will explode easily, but if handeled with proper precautions it can be rather harmless due to a lack of
gaseos products . also i want realy unique compoands like silver aluminate or
silicate
[Edited on 28-9-2013 by bismuthate]
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Nicodem
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Thread Moved
28-9-2013 at 09:26 |
blogfast25
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Quote: Originally posted by bismuthate  | | yeah i was also wonderiing what coumpounds i could percipitate. ex silver chromate, chloride, iodide etc. but is silver manganate possible?
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Assuming you mean silver permanganate (not manganite VI) then according to Wikipedia, yes:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Silver_permanganate
It would be synthesised by using AgMnO4's poor solubility in cold water (0.55 g/100 ml at 0 C, acc. Wiki). Mix fairly concentrated
solutions of KMnO4 and AgNO3, then chill to obtain the AgMnO4.
Photos would be nice.
[Edited on 28-9-2013 by blogfast25]
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bismuthate
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no actualy i was talking about mangante as in the ion you get from decomposing potassium permanganate, but i plan to make silver permanganate too
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chornedsnorkack
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In aqueous conditions, manganates are stable in basic conditions.
What is the pH where manganate dismutes, and what is the pH where Ag precipitates?
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bismuthate
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i'm not sure but i plan to find out soon.
i made agkmno4 which is an unimpessive gray powder.
i will make silver borate in the next 10 mins.
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sonogashira
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Brauer says that it forms black lustrous needles. See page 1463:
http://books.google.co.uk/books?hl=en&lr=&id=Pef47TK...
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bismuthate
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sonogashira: odd, that had the same formula as the permanganate what does that mean? could they have described the permangante with a different name?
i made silver borate it is a brown insoluable powder. it looks nothing like i expected.
i think i"ll combine sodium zincate with silver nitrate and see the results.
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bismuthate
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actualy i'm not sure what it is but it came from mixing AgNO3 and borax what is this?
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blogfast25
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Your supposition that it is silver borate may be plain wrong: borax solutions are very alkaline, silver oxide/hydroxide is thus likely to precipitate
instead of silver borate. The colour certainly matches that of silver oxide/hydroxide.
You can't just mix things together and hope for the best without taking into account that some of it will in fact react with the solvent (water): see
hydrolysis of borates....
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bismuthate
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sorry. i plan to test it by adding ammonia
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blogfast25
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You mean ammonia solution. That of course contains loads of water too.
But ammonia is generally a very bad idea with Ag+ because it forms a complex with ammonia: [Ag(NH3)2]+
cations. The complex is so strong that the insoluble AgCl dissolves in strong ammonia solutions!
If you take your brown precipitate that you mentioned upthread and add strong ammonia solution to it, chances are the precipitate will dissolve by the
formation of this complex.
Also, read up about the dangers of this complex.
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by blogfast25]
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sonogashira
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In fact the preparation using a borax solution is correct. Surely there is a better reference, but this will do, p625: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=P_MVjTFh16YC&pg=PA625...
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blogfast25
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It's possible Sono, at least there are plenty references to the term 'silver borate'. But one mustn't a priori assume that this salt or
that salt is formed when hydrolysis is in play.
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by blogfast25]
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bismuthate
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thats interesting. both AgNO3 and borax are soluble in glycerin so maybe i could avoid hydrolysis by having no water present in the reaction. although
the borax would need to be anhydrous. would this work or am i missing something obvious? (i have a feeling i am)
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bfesser
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You are: <a href="https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glycerol" target="_blank">glycerin</a> <img src="../scipics/_wiki.png" /> is
hygroscopic. Ignoring the rest of the chem, you're unlikely to have dry glycerin.
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bismuthate
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this has already gone beyond what i plan to do at home. now i just want to know theoreticly, could one do this?
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bismuthate
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is there anything else both are soluble in? also it doesn't matter much if there is a bit of water as long as it's mostly water free.
[Edited on 29-9-2013 by bismuthate]
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blogfast25
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One way of verifying your precipitate is indeed silver borate would be to filter and wash it, then transfer the filter cake to a separate beaker and
add strong HCl to it. The brown precipitate should convert to a white one and flakes of boric acid should be observed, after standing for a bit:
Silver borate (precipitate) + HCl (solution) === > AgCl (white precipitate) + B(OH)3 (oily flakes)
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bismuthate
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it worked i have silver borate!
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