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underground
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[*] posted on 24-11-2015 at 10:45


The dissolved erythritol into acid (sulfuric or nitric acid) can be storage stable over time at room temp ? I am trying of making a semi-automatic setup for nitration.
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[*] posted on 24-11-2015 at 10:50


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
The dissolved erythritol into acid (sulfuric or nitric acid) can be storage stable over time at room temp ? I am trying of making a semi-automatic setup for nitration.


I'm not entirely sure how long the eryrthritol would "survive" in 98% H₂SO₄ maybe someone else knows.

You could however mix erythritol and AN then slowly add that to the acid and get the same results.
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[*] posted on 24-11-2015 at 11:22


It has been tried:

http://www.sciencemadness.org/talk/viewthread.php?tid=20638

Apparently, not with improvement in yield on this attempt- but you could try and see what further experimentation might show.

Usually, searching with Google will find you information on topics like this more easily than using the site's toy search engine-

This thread came up first thing on searching google with these words:

sciencemadness.org mixed erythritol ammonium nitrate sulfuric acid

[Edited on 24-11-2015 by Bert]




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[*] posted on 24-11-2015 at 19:42


What would you guess is the volume of this flask?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2x24S2t1I#t=1m59s

[Edited on 25-11-2015 by Morgan]
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[*] posted on 25-11-2015 at 05:38


Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
What would you guess is the volume of this flask?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2x24S2t1I#t=1m59s

[Edited on 25-11-2015 by Morgan]


2.5 liters would be my guess.
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[*] posted on 25-11-2015 at 05:43


Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Quote: Originally posted by underground  
The dissolved erythritol into acid (sulfuric or nitric acid) can be storage stable over time at room temp ? I am trying of making a semi-automatic setup for nitration.


I'm not entirely sure how long the eryrthritol would "survive" in 98% H₂SO₄ maybe someone else knows.

You could however mix erythritol and AN then slowly add that to the acid and get the same results.


It is much more easier to slowly add the liquid as it can easily be controled for making an automatic nitration system than the solids
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[*] posted on 25-11-2015 at 16:21


Quote: Originally posted by OneEyedPyro  
Quote: Originally posted by Morgan  
What would you guess is the volume of this flask?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ad2x24S2t1I#t=1m59s

[Edited on 25-11-2015 by Morgan]


2.5 liters would be my guess.


Since I was looking at flasks yesterday, I just now saw this Amazon ad on a side screen of my homepage for a 5 liter and this hindrance if you live in Texas. Imagine an Erlenmeyer flask being so watched. What a world we live in today.
"Texas Residents: Under Texas State Law, this product requires a Precursor Chemical/Laboratory App.."

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[*] posted on 25-11-2015 at 23:51


A quick question about grease. Is it necessary to apply new grease after each distillation? I bought an one ounce dow cornering grease and i do not plan to buy another for a while.
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[*] posted on 26-11-2015 at 03:36


Quote: Originally posted by ganger631  
A quick question about grease. Is it necessary to apply new grease after each distillation? I bought an one ounce dow cornering grease and i do not plan to buy another for a while.

If you distill (no overheating burning the grease!) the same and if your glass rods are stil air proof (you can see through it transparently) then it is not a problem.

If you do different distillations, then you might get cross contaminations...because some of the distillate may "dissolve" into the grease.




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[*] posted on 26-11-2015 at 03:46


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
The dissolved erythritol into acid (sulfuric or nitric acid) can be storage stable over time at room temp ? I am trying of making a semi-automatic setup for nitration.

Conc H2SO4 tends to dehydrate hydrates of carbon (what erythritol is)...Ever done the suggar cube/conc H2SO4 experiment? You end up with a black carbon dust (charring).

Conc HNO3 tends to oxydise the hydrates of carbon into CO2, H2O and oxalic acid.

--> None is storage stable!

You could do a premixing of NH4NO3/conc H2SO4/conc HNO3; the last conc HNO3 serves as a thinner, to get a less sticky mix...then cool it down in the freezer.
Premix erythritol with cold conc HNO3 prior to use until fully dissolved and allow the previous freezing cold mix containing conc H2SO4 to fall dropwise into your erythritol mix...or inversely.


[Edited on 26-11-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]




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[*] posted on 26-11-2015 at 05:13


Quote: Originally posted by PHILOU Zrealone  
Quote: Originally posted by underground  
The dissolved erythritol into acid (sulfuric or nitric acid) can be storage stable over time at room temp ? I am trying of making a semi-automatic setup for nitration.

Conc H2SO4 tends to dehydrate hydrates of carbon (what erythritol is)...Ever done the suggar cube/conc H2SO4 experiment? You end up with a black carbon dust (charring).

Conc HNO3 tends to oxydise the hydrates of carbon into CO2, H2O and oxalic acid.

--> None is storage stable!

You could do a premixing of NH4NO3/conc H2SO4/conc HNO3; the last conc HNO3 serves as a thinner, to get a less sticky mix...then cool it down in the freezer.
Premix erythritol with cold conc HNO3 prior to use until fully dissolved and allow the previous freezing cold mix containing conc H2SO4 to fall dropwise into your erythritol mix...or inversely.


[Edited on 26-11-2015 by PHILOU Zrealone]


Ok PHILOU Zrealone i understand. Thanks a lot for your help
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[*] posted on 26-11-2015 at 08:35


A short question. Can anybody estimate the VoD of the aminoguanidine nitrate ?
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[*] posted on 26-11-2015 at 19:32


Another quick one. I dont plan on making any organic peroxide, however will usp grade h2o2 with stabilizer work for general synthesis?
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[*] posted on 27-11-2015 at 09:18


Quote: Originally posted by ganger631  
Another quick one. I dont plan on making any organic peroxide, however will usp grade h2o2 with stabilizer work for general synthesis?


It will work for TATP but yields will be pretty terrible.
It's not hard to concentrate peroxide and bringing it up to 6 or 9% would give a substantial yeild increase.
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[*] posted on 27-11-2015 at 12:18


Oh, i know it's pretty easy to concentrate h2o2, however i guess the inhibitor and stabilizer wont do much. correct?
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[*] posted on 27-11-2015 at 13:02


That is correct, the added stabilizers/inhibitors only serve to increase shelf life.
I doubt they have much if any effect other than to act as a slight potential contaminant in most synthesis.
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[*] posted on 27-11-2015 at 13:32


does sulfur dioxide corrode steel?i am trying to drop gold using sodium metabisulfite and dont want to leave the stuff out side in the cold.out of 3.5 grams of gold i only got a pellet that wouldn't even register on a digital micro scale.if i dont get more gold i will have to admit that it might have been fake 10kt.though not likely retirement pins would be fake, my solution is now clear brown instead of green. i got so much Smb in solution it stinks in my garage and i dont want to ruin more tools.. thank you.
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[*] posted on 27-11-2015 at 19:49


My nitric acid is all containmented with carbon or some rubbish(it used to be the cap). I might sound dumb, but can i just filter it out using coffee filter or should i just distill it?
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[*] posted on 1-12-2015 at 18:08


Will this work ?

Erythritol (150 g; 1.23 mol) was dissolved in 96% sulfuric acid (450 mL; 8.5 mol) at a temperature not exceeding 40 °C, which was ensured by using a cold water bath. The resulting yellowish solution was transferred to a dropping funnel and slowly added to a beaker of rapidly stirred fuming nitric acid (720 mL; 16.8 mol) whilst the temperature increased from 20 to 40 °C. The reaction was only slightly exothermic and cooling was not necessary. The reaction mixture was stirred at 45 °C for a further 30 minutes and then slowly cooled to 10 °C, with continued vigorous stirring. During this time, ETN precipitated out and solidified in granular form. The reaction mixture was then filtered and the filtrate was discarded. The product was transferred from the filter into a beaker containing an aqueous solution of sodium bicarbonate and was stirred for 30 minutes. After further filtration and drying at room temperature, the yield was 347g (94%) of crude erythritol tetranitrate (m.p. 56-58°C).

[Edited on 2-12-2015 by underground]
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[*] posted on 4-12-2015 at 10:39


I need calcium carbide to create acetylene gas to make silver acetylide double salt. The maximum amount I am thinking I would make (over a period of time) is about 10 grams (in many small batches, not one big batch). How much calcium carbide should I buy to create enough acetylene gas to accomplish this?
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[*] posted on 4-12-2015 at 11:12


Google IS your friend...

Calcium carbide reaction with water:

CaC2 + 2 H2O → C2H2 + Ca(OH)2

So a 1:1 ratio of carbide to gas. But your starting material may not be very pure. Carbide lamp fuel pellets, "Big Bang" cannon ammo, etc. certainly are not.

Assume only 80% purity for such technical grade material, if freshly opened- Then do the stoichiometry. Need help with stoichiometry? We can move this to beginnings.




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[*] posted on 4-12-2015 at 12:14


Quote: Originally posted by underground  
the yield was 347g (94%) of crude erythritol tetranitrate (m.p. 56-58°C).


Wooaaahhhh. That's pretty high based on what I've read. Most procedures offer much lower yields from what I've read.

So, unrelated question. Where does the force come from in a flash-powder reaction? I know they don't generate any significant gas volume based on their chemical reaction (at least, not Al+KClO4) but they generate massive heat energy and light, hence the flash in the name.

I've gotten it to do things like totally invert bottle caps and break rocks, so I'm wondering where the heck the energy needed to do that comes from if it's not in the form of a gas?




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[*] posted on 4-12-2015 at 14:35


@James, you need high pressure to break rocks
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[*] posted on 4-12-2015 at 18:12


True, I probably mis-stated that.

It was a large shelf of soft shale that was rather crumbly anyway, but the indentation left in the rock face was much more than I expected and some rather large chunks broke apart very visibly. It was a pretty small amount too.




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[*] posted on 5-12-2015 at 03:37


I have seen people split stumps with flash powder and correct stemming to enhance effect of course. You should be able to split rocks with flash as black powder was used for this purpose before the invention of high explosives. Although it wouldn't be a very effective method nowadays and I think a lot was required to actually break the rock.

Correct me if I am wrong but depending on the flash powder composition, there must be some amount of gas generated as well as the visible solid byproducts observed when igniting it.

I am sure a large amount of the energy from flash powder would come from a combination of the rapid increase in temperature and the expanding pressure of the solid byproducts of combustion.

Found an equation quickly for low power KNO3 flash and it seems that a bit of nitrogen is released during combustion in gas form along with the solid products:

2 KNO3 + 4 Al + S → K2S + N2 + 2 Al2O3





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