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Laboratory of Liptakov
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[*] posted on 23-4-2016 at 08:55
2-EHN


Here is price 12 Libre for 1 litre pure 2- ethylhexyl nitrate: http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/NBS-LAKI-1-LITRE-Cetane-Booster-2-...
Huh.. Is possible, that post price is 50,4 Libre? Maybe later during a time will be tested...LL

[Edited on 23-4-2016 by Laboratory of Liptakov]
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[*] posted on 23-4-2016 at 09:22


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
Sorry for the typo: autocorrect is a bitch. I meant ethylenediamine.

PLX-100 is a liquid explosive comprised of 95% nitromethane and 5% ethylenediamine. VoD is around 6300 m/s. I don't have very much experience with it (I don't like liquid explosives.) It looks pretty brisant, although I don't have any specific tests to cite.

My other speculation was a plastic explosive alike to LL's plastics, using ED as fuel.

Yes EDA, in place of EG, why not...or ethanol amine, diethanolamine or triethanol amine.

As explained in Laboratory of Liptakov's (LL) tread I would go for glycerol because denser than EG...one may even think to melt erythritol or to mix glycerol and eryhthritol to increase density and thus VOD.

But if you are smart enough, with EDA (ethylenediamine) in hand and NH4ClO4...you better do very powerful EDA diperchlorate (O3ClOH3N-CH2-CH2-NH3OClO3)
Or if you have iron balls...EDA di-chlorate (O2ClOH3N-CH2-CH2-NH3OClO2) ...amine chlorates are much more shock sensitive than amine perchlorates...

One may even think for LL formulations to work with partially neutralised EDA with one equivalent HNO3 or HClO4...
H2N-CH2-CH2-NH3ONO2
H2N-CH2-CH2-NH3OClO4
or ethanolamine, diethanolamin or triethanolamine mono nitrate/ mono perchlorate.




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[*] posted on 23-4-2016 at 09:29


Quote: Originally posted by Bert  
Quote: Originally posted by Laboratory of Liptakov  
Has somebody experience with fuel 2-ethylhexyl nitrate? (2-EHN diesel booster) in mix with any oxidizer? As explosive material, of course. Is available on Ebay. Slightly expensive, but has universal using. OB = - 196. Thanks,..:cool:...LL


I recall an explosive patent for mixtures using various mixture of 2-ethylhexyl nitrate, ammonium perchlorate and azodicarbonamide (a blowing agent for plastics, occasionally used as a leavening agent in bread!), occasionally with auxiliary metallic fuels, sometimes with other oxidizers.

Some quite high velocities were claimed, I recall. Discussion was on the old roguesci.org explosives & weapons forum- I have not yet run down the patent number, but here is the meat:


Quote:

What is claimed is:

1. A multi-component explosive composition comprising a mixture of a first fuel comprising 2-ethylhexyl nitrate, a granular solid oxidizer, and an additive capable of lowering the sensitivity of the explosive consisting essentially of azodicarbonamide, said mixture forming a detonable explosive.

2. An explosive composition comprising 2-ethylhexyl nitrate in an amount of 9.65% by weight, aluminum in an amount of 9.65% by weight and ammonium perchlorate in an amount of 80.70% by weight.

3. An explosive composition comprising 2-ethylhexyl nitrate in an amount of about 13.3% by weight, azodicarbonamide in an amount of about 4.8% by weight and ammonium perchlorate in an amount of about 81.9% by weight.

Again if you have gold in hand, why add poor performing EHN to the mix...
AZDCA has the chemical formula H2N-CO-N=N-CO-NH2,
So the simple OB mix of AZDCA (N4H4C2O2) / AP (NH4ClO4) and Al will be very powerful without EHN...




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[*] posted on 23-4-2016 at 10:30


@PHILOU Zrealone

Which LL thread?

EDA diperchlorate would be:

Perchloric acid+EDA solution in water until slight excess of EDA --> EDA diperchlorate

[Edited on 23-4-2016 by a nitrogen rich explosive]




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 03:44


Hi! I'm trying to perform the synthesis of guanazoguanazole (and guanazole as byproduct) from 2-cyanoguanidine and hydrazine sulfate. The main idea is, after around 8 hours with stirring at 50ºC, filter the insoluble guanazoguanazole. But 2-cyanoguanidine seems quite insoluble, should I acidify the solution with HCl?

EDIT: After 10 min at 70ºC the mix seems to (almost) fully dissolve without any acid added. I guess the heat and the formation of guanazole helps the remaining cyanoguanidine to dissolve. I will post results.

[Edited on 24-4-2016 by kratomiter]
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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 04:58


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
@PHILOU Zrealone

Which LL thread?

EDA diperchlorate would be:
Perchloric acid+EDA solution in water until slight excess of EDA --> EDA diperchlorate

Probably the one where you got the idea to replace its EG with EDA...maybe do a search into the forum with the search engine under both posters (LL and/or I) with glycerol or glycolex as keywords...

Or EDA + HOClO3 until a slight exces of HOClO3 depending on what ingredient is the more valuable to you (or the more dispandable to you).




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 07:38


Thanks PHILOU.

SPECULATIVE/THEORETICAL CHEMISTRY:

RDX is C3N3 bonded to three NO2 groups.
Would it be possible to replace the NO2 groups with NF2 groups?
I have no synthesis at all, the idea just struck me.
This would be an extremely high explosive.




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 11:36


I recall reading a report that investigated NF2 instead of NO2 as explosophore. Their conclusion was that it's only worth it if it's used to oxidise hydrogen and not carbon. HF yields slightly more energy per unit mass than H2O, but what really makes it favourable is that it dissociates at much higher temperatures.

One nearly perfect molecule I saw mentioned in some paper is bis(2-difluoramino-2,2-dinitroethyl)nitroamine - C4H4F4N8O10. As you can see, all the fluorine can form HF and all the carbon can form CO2. The last O2 is not optimal; a potentially superior compound would be the amine instead of nitroamine. Anyway, according to my calculations, this compound reaches an absolutely unparalleled 10600 m/s.
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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 11:58


Okay...
Would you be able to guess a synth for this?
This really is perfect.

Imagine a compound like a per nitro alkene (like octonitropentane) with all the NO2s replaced with NF2...

Just imagine... :P

From personal experience with ONP, that has a VoD of 10km/s, and can be prepared from nitroform, nitromethane, trioxane, sulphuric acid, nitric acid, pyridine and acetic anyhydride... I have a paper in the process.




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 12:05
NF2 instead of NO2...


I thought it might be an idea to start a thread about this...

I just had the idea of a RDX-style explosive, with the C3N3 ring connected to NF2 groups instead of NO2 groups.

After talking to Dornier 335A:
NF2 is only really worth using when it oxidises hydrogen instead of carbon.
A near perfect compound would be C4N4F4N8O10 or
bis(2-difluoroamino-2,2,dinitroethyl)nitroamine.

Synthesis for the above?

I believe that someone else on the forum spectated on the idea of a hexamine-based NF2 explosive - can anyone else find this?




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 13:46


You missed the point. Highly nitrated alkanes are carbon rich and would thus not benefit from replacement of the -NO2 with -NF2.

And I don't believe for a microsecond that you've synthesised and measured the detonation velocity of octanitropentane...

I took myself time to calculate the properties of 1,1,2,2,3,4,5,5-octanitropentane (since you didn't specify which isomer):
Enthalpy of formation: 130 kJ/mol (using Firefly, PM3 and extrapolating from gaseous enthalpy)
Density: 2.16 g/cc (using a fragment addition method. ChemSketch gives a more reasonable 2.01 g/cc)
Oxygen balance: +14.8 %
Detonation velocity: 9323 m/s (using my own BKW implementation)
Detonation pressure: 440 kbar
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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 14:00


Quote: Originally posted by Dornier 335A  
You missed the point. Highly nitrated alkanes are carbon rich and would thus not benefit from replacement of the -NO2 with -NF2.

And I don't believe for a microsecond that you've synthesised and measured the detonation velocity of octanitropentane...

I took myself time to calculate the properties of 1,1,2,2,3,4,5,5-octanitropentane (since you didn't specify which isomer):
Enthalpy of formation: 130 kJ/mol (using Firefly, PM3 and extrapolating from gaseous enthalpy)
Density: 2.16 g/cc (using a fragment addition method. ChemSketch gives a more reasonable 2.01 g/cc)
Oxygen balance: +14.8 %
Detonation velocity: 9323 m/s (using my own BKW implementation)
Detonation pressure: 440 kbar

He was refering to its 1,1,1,3,3,5,5,5-ONP from another tread.
He likes to multipost about the same and multiply treads.
He understands quickly but we have to explain him long at large and several times ;).




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 14:03


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
Thanks PHILOU.

SPECULATIVE/THEORETICAL CHEMISTRY:

RDX is C3N3 bonded to three NO2 groups.
Would it be possible to replace the NO2 groups with NF2 groups?
I have no synthesis at all, the idea just struck me.
This would be an extremely high explosive.

Recheck what is the formula of RDX...
Maybe try H2N-NF2 that would be the most interesting.




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[*] posted on 24-4-2016 at 23:26


That does look interesting...

It's a perfect compound too, H2N-NF2 --> 2HF+N2.
What would you call the NF2 group? I know that H2N-NF2 would be a primary amine with the NF2, but I can't think of a pithy name.

Synth ^?




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[*] posted on 25-4-2016 at 04:39


Already discussed here in "Short question / quick answer - Thread"



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[*] posted on 25-4-2016 at 05:29


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
Okay...
Would you be able to guess a synth for this?
This really is perfect.

Imagine a compound like a per nitro alkene (like octonitropentane) with all the NO2s replaced with NF2...

Just imagine... :P

From personal experience with ONP, that has a VoD of 10km/s, and can be prepared from nitroform, nitromethane, trioxane, sulphuric acid, nitric acid, pyridine and acetic anyhydride... I have a paper in the process.

1°) Octonitropentane is not a per-nitro-alcane...
"per-nitro" means that all hydrogens have been replaced by nitrogroups
--> tetranitromethane, hexanitroethane, octanitropropane, decanitrobutane, dodecanitropentane
...since octonitropentane contains stil 4 H...it cant belong to that familly. --> think even more before posting (TEMBP)
2°) Octonitropentane is not a per-nitro-alkene, because it contains stil 4 H (cf supra in 1°)) and most of all it doesn't contain a single double C-C link...reason why ONP is finished by "-ane" instead of "-ene"...
--> TEMBP

Per-difluoroamino compounds will probably be useless since the driving force of the explosion of -NF2 is the energy released from HF formation (as wel explained by Dornier 335A)...this is just like chloramines explosives (see Axt tread) ((R-)2C=N-Cl, R-NCl-R and R-NCl2) with the formation of HCl and black C smoke...
"Per"-meaning here no H's atoms --> you would get much less energy despite a big density.
Also it is not sure that like -NO2 you can put two or more on a single C atom...
--> Ever eard or read about bis-difluoraminomethane, tris-difluoraminomethane (difluoraminoform) or tetra-difluoraminomethane (per-difluoraminomethane)? Not me, I had even to invent a nomenclature for it :P!
Also...maybe you get disproportionation...
(R-)2C(-NF2)2 --> NF3 + (R-)2C=N-F






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[*] posted on 25-4-2016 at 05:44


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
That does look interesting...

It's a perfect compound too, H2N-NF2 --> 2HF+N2.
What would you call the NF2 group? I know that H2N-NF2 would be a primary amine with the NF2, but I can't think of a pithy name.

Synth ^?

So RDX contains hydrogen atoms... RDX is not C3N3 with NO2 groups but C3H6N3 with NO2 groups on the N (nitramines) (those could be on the C atoms --> nitrocarbons)
-->TEMBP

Yes very cool compound...
Its name would be unsymetrical difluorohydrazine (u-DFH) by opposition to symetrical DFH (FHN-NHF), or difluoroaminamide (by relation to nitramide (H2N-NO2)).
Thinking to dinitramide, this raises the possibility of bis-difluoroaminamide (1,1,3,3-tetrafluoro-triazane or F2N-NH-NF2) and tris-difluoroaminamide (tris-difluoroamino-amine/ammonia tris-difluoroamine or N(-NF2)3)...but trinitramide doesn't exist yet (N(-NO2)3) and probably because of disproportionation what will probably apply to TDFAA...

Synthesis of H2N-NF2...maybe via H2N-Cl and Ag-NF2 or Na-NH2 in excess with NF3???




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[*] posted on 25-4-2016 at 07:50


These are very cool compounds. However, for one to be a perfect compound, it has to create plumes of boiling HF...

My fume hood's going to have a field day!!!




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[*] posted on 25-4-2016 at 10:05


Would diaminofurazan work as a perchlorate salt? If it did, it would have unbridled power, due to an excellent predicted oxygen balance.



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[*] posted on 25-4-2016 at 10:57


The salt of 3,4-Diaminofurazan with perchloric acid will have a (3-aminofurazanyl)ammonium plerchlorate structure and has been isolated in a "stable" crystalline state.

As for explosive and other physical characteristics I have non to offer or reference.
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[*] posted on 27-4-2016 at 02:59


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
Would diaminofurazan work as a perchlorate salt? If it did, it would have unbridled power, due to an excellent predicted oxygen balance.

Dihydrazino-furazane or -furoxane would make even better diperchlorates...




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[*] posted on 29-4-2016 at 07:51


This has indeed been discussed above... But I just had a thought.
C3H6N3-N3F6 + 2KClO3 --> 6HF + 3CO2 + 2KCl + 3N2
This is another one that works out perfectly...




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[*] posted on 29-4-2016 at 08:28


Quote: Originally posted by a nitrogen rich explosive  
This has indeed been discussed above... But I just had a thought.
C3H6N3-N3F6 + 2KClO3 --> 6HF + 3CO2 + 2KCl + 3N2
This is another one that works out perfectly...

Too bad that KCl is not gaseous...maybe try with NH4ClO4 or N2H5ClO4 instead for better detonic parameters (brisance and VOD)...

Better write C3H6N3-N3F6 in extension
--> (-CH2-N(-NF2)-)3
--> or (-CH(-NF2)-NH-)3
--> or C3H6N3(-NF2)3




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[*] posted on 29-4-2016 at 08:47


NH4ClO4 is a much better idea.

Do you know a synthesis for this? I think that it would probably involve HNF2 (difluoroamine) but I can't work out anything else.





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[*] posted on 29-4-2016 at 08:49


Also, on a completely different topic:

Would reacting hydrazine with iodine yield N2I4 (like nitrogen triiodide) or would the strains on the 4 iodine atoms be so much that the compound couldn't exist?

[Edited on 29-4-2016 by a nitrogen rich explosive]




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